Grokbase › Groups › Oracle › oracle-l › October 2002
FAQ
As I said, use mssql ONLY if your boss is willing to be strapped into a
MicroSlop only platform. If he's even remotely thinking of using a different OS
then you can't use mssql.

Dick Goulet

____________________Reply Separator____________________
Author: GKor_at_rdw.nl
Date: 10/23/2002 11:48 PM

goodmorning
everybody who responded to my basic question : thanks

summary

professional : use oracle enterprise edition
semi professional : use oracle standard edition / mssql enterprise edition
in all other cases mssql standard edition
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Mohammad Rafiq [SMTP:rafiq9857_at_hotmail.com]
Verzonden: woensdag 23 oktober 2002 20:51
Aan: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Onderwerp: RE: oracle or mssql

Xenix is history now...SCO itself stopped it sometime in 1990






Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:02:19 -0800

XENIX maybe.

: )

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
Technology Services | Services technologiques
Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO

E-Mail: boivinp_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca




-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:59 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Is MSSQL server available on UNIX?

-Rachna
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Boivin, Patrice J
INET: BoivinP_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca

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--
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--
Author: Mohammad Rafiq
INET: rafiq9857_at_hotmail.com

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Search Discussions

  • Jenner Mike at Oct 29, 2002 at 12:18 pm ⇧
    List,

    I'm always keen to refresh on database comparisons so thanks for
    everyone's pointers.

    I'm surprised Oracle doesn't make more of an issue about their locking and
    concurrency methods (i.e. redo/rollback/undo).

    MSSQL seems to deal with it in two ways:
    Default: readers and writers prevent writers from accessing data until they
    are finished with it!
    Other method: no control, you just get dirty reads!

    Anyone got anything to add to this? Or am I wrong?

    Mike.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 24 October 2002 17:29
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    As I said, use mssql ONLY if your boss is willing to be strapped into a
    MicroSlop only platform. If he's even remotely thinking of using a
    different OS
    then you can't use mssql.

    Dick Goulet

    ____________________Reply Separator____________________
    Author: GKor_at_rdw.nl
    Date: 10/23/2002 11:48 PM

    goodmorning
    everybody who responded to my basic question : thanks

    summary

    professional : use oracle enterprise edition
    semi professional : use oracle standard edition / mssql enterprise edition
    in all other cases mssql standard edition
    -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
    Van: Mohammad Rafiq [SMTP:rafiq9857_at_hotmail.com]
    Verzonden: woensdag 23 oktober 2002 20:51
    Aan: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Onderwerp: RE: oracle or mssql

    Xenix is history now...SCO itself stopped it sometime in 1990






    Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:02:19 -0800

    XENIX maybe.

    : )

    Regards,
    Patrice Boivin
    Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

    Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
    Technology Services | Services technologiques
    Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
    Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO

    E-Mail: boivinp_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca




    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:59 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    Is MSSQL server available on UNIX?

    -Rachna
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Boivin, Patrice J
    INET: BoivinP_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
    San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
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    (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


    _________________________________________________________________
    Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access!
    http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Mohammad Rafiq
    INET: rafiq9857_at_hotmail.com

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author:
    INET: GKor_at_rdw.nl

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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

    --
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    Author:
    INET: dgoulet_at_vicr.com

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    --
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    --
    Author: Jenner Mike
    INET: M.Jenner_at_southampton.gov.uk

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  • Tom Pall at Oct 29, 2002 at 3:54 pm ⇧
    It's these readers-blocks-writers and dirty reads that makes people migrate
    their data to Oracle. Blocking writers kills performance. Of course
    constantly rolling back blocks to give queries consistent views uses i/o and
    cpu. But that extra overhead rarely impacts overall performance as badly as
    blocking readers/writers does. The typical impetus to migrate is that
    Oracle's redo/rollback/undo allows it to scale a lot better than MSSQL. It
    happens all the time. MSSQL was cheap, easy to set up and manage, ran as an
    integral part of WinTel, handled the low transaction rate. The transaction
    rate increases. Eventually all attempts to distribute the data amongst
    multiple boxes to handle the increased transaction rate fails. Exit MSSQL,
    enter Oracle.
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 6:18 AM

    List,
    I'm always keen to refresh on database comparisons so thanks for
    everyone's pointers.

    I'm surprised Oracle doesn't make more of an issue about their locking and
    concurrency methods (i.e. redo/rollback/undo).

    MSSQL seems to deal with it in two ways:
    Default: readers and writers prevent writers from accessing data until they
    are finished with it!
    Other method: no control, you just get dirty reads!

    Anyone got anything to add to this? Or am I wrong?

    Mike.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 24 October 2002 17:29
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    As I said, use mssql ONLY if your boss is willing to be strapped into a
    MicroSlop only platform. If he's even remotely thinking of using a
    different OS
    then you can't use mssql.

    Dick Goulet

    ____________________Reply Separator____________________
    Author: GKor_at_rdw.nl
    Date: 10/23/2002 11:48 PM

    goodmorning
    everybody who responded to my basic question : thanks

    summary

    professional : use oracle enterprise edition
    semi professional : use oracle standard edition / mssql enterprise edition
    in all other cases mssql standard edition
    -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
    Van: Mohammad Rafiq [SMTP:rafiq9857_at_hotmail.com]
    Verzonden: woensdag 23 oktober 2002 20:51
    Aan: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Onderwerp: RE: oracle or mssql

    Xenix is history now...SCO itself stopped it sometime in 1990






    Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:02:19 -0800

    XENIX maybe.

    : )

    Regards,
    Patrice Boivin
    Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

    Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
    Technology Services | Services technologiques
    Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
    Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO

    E-Mail: boivinp_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca




    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:59 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    Is MSSQL server available on UNIX?

    -Rachna
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Boivin, Patrice J
    INET: BoivinP_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
    San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


    _________________________________________________________________
    Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access!
    http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Mohammad Rafiq
    INET: rafiq9857_at_hotmail.com

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author:
    INET: GKor_at_rdw.nl

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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    --
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    Author:
    INET: dgoulet_at_vicr.com

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    Author: Jenner Mike
    INET: M.Jenner_at_southampton.gov.uk

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    --
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    Author: Tom Pall
    INET: tpall_at_realtime.net

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  • Yechiel Adar at Oct 30, 2002 at 4:54 pm ⇧
    I would like to point out that what you call "dirty reads" are mostly
    the correct reads. Oracle method IS the dirty read.

    I am sure that your users does at least 1000 commits to every rollback.
    So when oracle gives you the data it already knows that this data is
    wrong. If you do the query again a minute later you will get new results
    that were available when you did the original query but were committed
    later. So you get a 1000/1 chance to get incorrect data.

    The "dirty read" method, on the other hand, gives you the current values,
    believing that they will be committed in a moment. So you get 1/1000 chance
    to get wrong data.

    Which odds will you bet on?

    Yechiel Adar
    Mehish
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 2:18 PM

    List,
    I'm always keen to refresh on database comparisons so thanks for
    everyone's pointers.

    I'm surprised Oracle doesn't make more of an issue about their locking and
    concurrency methods (i.e. redo/rollback/undo).

    MSSQL seems to deal with it in two ways:
    Default: readers and writers prevent writers from accessing data until they
    are finished with it!
    Other method: no control, you just get dirty reads!

    Anyone got anything to add to this? Or am I wrong?

    Mike.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 24 October 2002 17:29
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    As I said, use mssql ONLY if your boss is willing to be strapped into a
    MicroSlop only platform. If he's even remotely thinking of using a
    different OS
    then you can't use mssql.

    Dick Goulet

    ____________________Reply Separator____________________
    Author: GKor_at_rdw.nl
    Date: 10/23/2002 11:48 PM

    goodmorning
    everybody who responded to my basic question : thanks

    summary

    professional : use oracle enterprise edition
    semi professional : use oracle standard edition / mssql enterprise edition
    in all other cases mssql standard edition
    -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
    Van: Mohammad Rafiq [SMTP:rafiq9857_at_hotmail.com]
    Verzonden: woensdag 23 oktober 2002 20:51
    Aan: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Onderwerp: RE: oracle or mssql

    Xenix is history now...SCO itself stopped it sometime in 1990






    Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:02:19 -0800

    XENIX maybe.

    : )

    Regards,
    Patrice Boivin
    Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

    Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
    Technology Services | Services technologiques
    Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
    Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO

    E-Mail: boivinp_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca




    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:59 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    Is MSSQL server available on UNIX?

    -Rachna
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Boivin, Patrice J
    INET: BoivinP_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
    San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
    to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
    the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
    (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


    _________________________________________________________________
    Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access!
    http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Mohammad Rafiq
    INET: rafiq9857_at_hotmail.com

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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    Author:
    INET: GKor_at_rdw.nl

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    Author:
    INET: dgoulet_at_vicr.com

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    Author: Jenner Mike
    INET: M.Jenner_at_southampton.gov.uk

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    Author: Yechiel Adar
    INET: adar76_at_inter.net.il

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  • Jared.Still_at_radisys.com at Oct 30, 2002 at 6:20 pm ⇧
    At least one of us has the incorrect understanding of 'dirty' reads,
    or I am taking you too literally, or something.

    What are you really saying?

    Oracle does not allow dirty reads.

    All queries are consistent to a point in time, the beginning
    of a transaction, whether implicit (select) or explicit ( start
    transaction ).

    SQL Server and Sybase do not guarantee this.

    The 'dirty' reads you are speaking of sound more to me
    like sloppy programming.

    Is that what you're referring to?

    Jared

    "Yechiel Adar"
    Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com
    10/30/2002 08:54 AM
    Please respond to ORACLE-L



    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    cc:
    Subject: Re: RE: oracle or mssql

    I would like to point out that what you call "dirty reads" are mostly
    the correct reads. Oracle method IS the dirty read.

    I am sure that your users does at least 1000 commits to every rollback.
    So when oracle gives you the data it already knows that this data is
    wrong. If you do the query again a minute later you will get new results
    that were available when you did the original query but were committed
    later. So you get a 1000/1 chance to get incorrect data.

    The "dirty read" method, on the other hand, gives you the current values,
    believing that they will be committed in a moment. So you get 1/1000
    chance
    to get wrong data.

    Which odds will you bet on?

    Yechiel Adar
    Mehish
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 2:18 PM

    List,
    I'm always keen to refresh on database comparisons so thanks for
    everyone's pointers.

    I'm surprised Oracle doesn't make more of an issue about their locking and
    concurrency methods (i.e. redo/rollback/undo).

    MSSQL seems to deal with it in two ways:
    Default: readers and writers prevent writers from accessing data until
    they
    are finished with it!
    Other method: no control, you just get dirty reads!

    Anyone got anything to add to this? Or am I wrong?

    Mike.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 24 October 2002 17:29
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    As I said, use mssql ONLY if your boss is willing to be strapped into a
    MicroSlop only platform. If he's even remotely thinking of using a
    different OS
    then you can't use mssql.

    Dick Goulet

    ____________________Reply Separator____________________
    Author: GKor_at_rdw.nl
    Date: 10/23/2002 11:48 PM

    goodmorning
    everybody who responded to my basic question : thanks

    summary

    professional : use oracle enterprise edition
    semi professional : use oracle standard edition / mssql enterprise edition
    in all other cases mssql standard edition
    -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
    Van: Mohammad Rafiq [SMTP:rafiq9857_at_hotmail.com]
    Verzonden: woensdag 23 oktober 2002 20:51
    Aan: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Onderwerp: RE: oracle or mssql

    Xenix is history now...SCO itself stopped it sometime in 1990






    Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:02:19 -0800

    XENIX maybe.

    : )

    Regards,
    Patrice Boivin
    Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

    Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
    Technology Services | Services technologiques
    Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
    Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO

    E-Mail: boivinp_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca




    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:59 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    Is MSSQL server available on UNIX?

    -Rachna
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Boivin, Patrice J
    INET: BoivinP_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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    _________________________________________________________________
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    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Mohammad Rafiq
    INET: rafiq9857_at_hotmail.com

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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
    --
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    Author:
    INET: GKor_at_rdw.nl

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    --
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    Author:
    INET: dgoulet_at_vicr.com

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    --
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    Author: Jenner Mike
    INET: M.Jenner_at_southampton.gov.uk

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    --
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    Author: Yechiel Adar
    INET: adar76_at_inter.net.il

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    Author:
    INET: Jared.Still_at_radisys.com

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  • Mercadante, Thomas F at Oct 30, 2002 at 6:42 pm ⇧
    It sounds like he is saying that, once an "insert, update or delete"
    statement has been issued (without a following commit), then the records
    acted upon are now considered "dirty" - i.e. needing writing to disk.

    this is, of course, NOT what Oracle considers a dirty block.

    I agree with you, Jared!

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 1:21 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    At least one of us has the incorrect understanding of 'dirty' reads,
    or I am taking you too literally, or something.

    What are you really saying?

    Oracle does not allow dirty reads.

    All queries are consistent to a point in time, the beginning
    of a transaction, whether implicit (select) or explicit ( start
    transaction ).

    SQL Server and Sybase do not guarantee this.

    The 'dirty' reads you are speaking of sound more to me
    like sloppy programming.

    Is that what you're referring to?

    Jared

    "Yechiel Adar"
    Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com
    10/30/2002 08:54 AM
    Please respond to ORACLE-L



    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    cc:
    Subject: Re: RE: oracle or mssql

    I would like to point out that what you call "dirty reads" are mostly
    the correct reads. Oracle method IS the dirty read.

    I am sure that your users does at least 1000 commits to every rollback.
    So when oracle gives you the data it already knows that this data is
    wrong. If you do the query again a minute later you will get new results
    that were available when you did the original query but were committed
    later. So you get a 1000/1 chance to get incorrect data.

    The "dirty read" method, on the other hand, gives you the current values,
    believing that they will be committed in a moment. So you get 1/1000
    chance
    to get wrong data.

    Which odds will you bet on?

    Yechiel Adar
    Mehish
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 2:18 PM

    List,
    I'm always keen to refresh on database comparisons so thanks for
    everyone's pointers.

    I'm surprised Oracle doesn't make more of an issue about their locking and
    concurrency methods (i.e. redo/rollback/undo).

    MSSQL seems to deal with it in two ways:
    Default: readers and writers prevent writers from accessing data until
    they
    are finished with it!
    Other method: no control, you just get dirty reads!

    Anyone got anything to add to this? Or am I wrong?

    Mike.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 24 October 2002 17:29
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    As I said, use mssql ONLY if your boss is willing to be strapped into a
    MicroSlop only platform. If he's even remotely thinking of using a
    different OS
    then you can't use mssql.

    Dick Goulet

    ____________________Reply Separator____________________
    Author: GKor_at_rdw.nl
    Date: 10/23/2002 11:48 PM

    goodmorning
    everybody who responded to my basic question : thanks

    summary

    professional : use oracle enterprise edition
    semi professional : use oracle standard edition / mssql enterprise edition
    in all other cases mssql standard edition
    -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
    Van: Mohammad Rafiq [SMTP:rafiq9857_at_hotmail.com]
    Verzonden: woensdag 23 oktober 2002 20:51
    Aan: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Onderwerp: RE: oracle or mssql

    Xenix is history now...SCO itself stopped it sometime in 1990






    Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:02:19 -0800

    XENIX maybe.

    : )

    Regards,
    Patrice Boivin
    Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

    Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
    Technology Services | Services technologiques
    Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
    Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO

    E-Mail: boivinp_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca




    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:59 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    Is MSSQL server available on UNIX?

    -Rachna
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Boivin, Patrice J
    INET: BoivinP_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
    San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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    to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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    (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


    _________________________________________________________________
    Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access!
    http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Mohammad Rafiq
    INET: rafiq9857_at_hotmail.com

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
    San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author:
    INET: GKor_at_rdw.nl

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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    --
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    Author:
    INET: dgoulet_at_vicr.com

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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    --
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    Author: Jenner Mike
    INET: M.Jenner_at_southampton.gov.uk

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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    --
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    Author: Yechiel Adar
    INET: adar76_at_inter.net.il

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
    San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

    --
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    --
    Author:
    INET: Jared.Still_at_radisys.com

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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    --
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    --
    Author: Mercadante, Thomas F
    INET: NDATFM_at_labor.state.ny.us

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
    San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
  • Mike Killough at Oct 31, 2002 at 12:58 am ⇧
    From my experience it is not acceptable to be wrong with the data 1/1000 of
    the time. You commit the transaction and it is done. You roll a transaction
    back for a reason.
    From: "Mercadante, Thomas F"
    Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Subject: RE: RE: oracle or mssql
    Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:42:30 -0800

    It sounds like he is saying that, once an "insert, update or delete"
    statement has been issued (without a following commit), then the records
    acted upon are now considered "dirty" - i.e. needing writing to disk.

    this is, of course, NOT what Oracle considers a dirty block.

    I agree with you, Jared!

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 1:21 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    At least one of us has the incorrect understanding of 'dirty' reads,
    or I am taking you too literally, or something.

    What are you really saying?

    Oracle does not allow dirty reads.

    All queries are consistent to a point in time, the beginning
    of a transaction, whether implicit (select) or explicit ( start
    transaction ).

    SQL Server and Sybase do not guarantee this.

    The 'dirty' reads you are speaking of sound more to me
    like sloppy programming.

    Is that what you're referring to?

    Jared






    "Yechiel Adar"
    Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com
    10/30/2002 08:54 AM
    Please respond to ORACLE-L


    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    cc:
    Subject: Re: RE: oracle or mssql


    I would like to point out that what you call "dirty reads" are mostly
    the correct reads. Oracle method IS the dirty read.

    I am sure that your users does at least 1000 commits to every rollback.
    So when oracle gives you the data it already knows that this data is
    wrong. If you do the query again a minute later you will get new results
    that were available when you did the original query but were committed
    later. So you get a 1000/1 chance to get incorrect data.

    The "dirty read" method, on the other hand, gives you the current values,
    believing that they will be committed in a moment. So you get 1/1000
    chance
    to get wrong data.

    Which odds will you bet on?

    Yechiel Adar
    Mehish
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 2:18 PM


    List,
    I'm always keen to refresh on database comparisons so thanks for
    everyone's pointers.

    I'm surprised Oracle doesn't make more of an issue about their locking and
    concurrency methods (i.e. redo/rollback/undo).

    MSSQL seems to deal with it in two ways:
    Default: readers and writers prevent writers from accessing data until
    they
    are finished with it!
    Other method: no control, you just get dirty reads!

    Anyone got anything to add to this? Or am I wrong?

    - Mike.


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 24 October 2002 17:29
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    As I said, use mssql ONLY if your boss is willing to be strapped into a
    MicroSlop only platform. If he's even remotely thinking of using a
    different OS
    then you can't use mssql.

    Dick Goulet

    ____________________Reply Separator____________________
    Author: GKor_at_rdw.nl
    Date: 10/23/2002 11:48 PM

    goodmorning
    everybody who responded to my basic question : thanks

    summary

    professional : use oracle enterprise edition
    semi professional : use oracle standard edition / mssql enterprise edition
    in all other cases mssql standard edition


    -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
    Van: Mohammad Rafiq [SMTP:rafiq9857_at_hotmail.com]
    Verzonden: woensdag 23 oktober 2002 20:51
    Aan: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Onderwerp: RE: oracle or mssql

    Xenix is history now...SCO itself stopped it sometime in 1990






    Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:02:19 -0800

    XENIX maybe.

    : )

    Regards,
    Patrice Boivin
    Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

    Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
    Technology Services | Services technologiques
    Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
    Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO

    E-Mail: boivinp_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca




    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:59 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    Is MSSQL server available on UNIX?

    -Rachna
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Boivin, Patrice J
    INET: BoivinP_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
    San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


    _________________________________________________________________
    Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access!
    http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Mohammad Rafiq
    INET: rafiq9857_at_hotmail.com

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author:
    INET: GKor_at_rdw.nl

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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    --
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    Author:
    INET: dgoulet_at_vicr.com

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    Author: Jenner Mike
    INET: M.Jenner_at_southampton.gov.uk

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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    Author: Yechiel Adar
    INET: adar76_at_inter.net.il

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    --
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    --
    Author:
    INET: Jared.Still_at_radisys.com

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Mercadante, Thomas F
    INET: NDATFM_at_labor.state.ny.us

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
    San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
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    (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
    Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access!
    http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Mike Killough
    INET: mwkillough_at_hotmail.com

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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    to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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    (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
  • Adrian Roe at Oct 31, 2002 at 9:11 am ⇧
    'Dirty reads' in SQL Server means that you can view records that have not
    been committed. This is implemented by setting the TRANSACTION ISOLATION
    LEVEL to READ UNCOMMITTED.

    This is not default behaviour in SQL Server, the default TIL is READ
    COMMITTED (for very good reason). I can think of very few situations where
    you would want to see uncommitted records.

    Dirty blocks in SQL Server/Oracle are the same thing ie. a block/page in
    cache that has been changed but not flushed to disk.

    Ade

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 30 October 2002 18:43
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    It sounds like he is saying that, once an "insert, update or delete"
    statement has been issued (without a following commit), then the records
    acted upon are now considered "dirty" - i.e. needing writing to disk.

    this is, of course, NOT what Oracle considers a dirty block.

    I agree with you, Jared!

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 1:21 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    At least one of us has the incorrect understanding of 'dirty' reads,
    or I am taking you too literally, or something.

    What are you really saying?

    Oracle does not allow dirty reads.

    All queries are consistent to a point in time, the beginning
    of a transaction, whether implicit (select) or explicit ( start
    transaction ).

    SQL Server and Sybase do not guarantee this.

    The 'dirty' reads you are speaking of sound more to me
    like sloppy programming.

    Is that what you're referring to?

    Jared

    "Yechiel Adar"
    Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com
    10/30/2002 08:54 AM
    Please respond to ORACLE-L



    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    cc:
    Subject: Re: RE: oracle or mssql

    I would like to point out that what you call "dirty reads" are mostly
    the correct reads. Oracle method IS the dirty read.

    I am sure that your users does at least 1000 commits to every rollback.
    So when oracle gives you the data it already knows that this data is
    wrong. If you do the query again a minute later you will get new results
    that were available when you did the original query but were committed
    later. So you get a 1000/1 chance to get incorrect data.

    The "dirty read" method, on the other hand, gives you the current values,
    believing that they will be committed in a moment. So you get 1/1000
    chance
    to get wrong data.

    Which odds will you bet on?

    Yechiel Adar
    Mehish
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 2:18 PM

    List,
    I'm always keen to refresh on database comparisons so thanks for
    everyone's pointers.

    I'm surprised Oracle doesn't make more of an issue about their locking and
    concurrency methods (i.e. redo/rollback/undo).

    MSSQL seems to deal with it in two ways:
    Default: readers and writers prevent writers from accessing data until
    they
    are finished with it!
    Other method: no control, you just get dirty reads!

    Anyone got anything to add to this? Or am I wrong?

    Mike.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 24 October 2002 17:29
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    As I said, use mssql ONLY if your boss is willing to be strapped into a
    MicroSlop only platform. If he's even remotely thinking of using a
    different OS
    then you can't use mssql.

    Dick Goulet

    ____________________Reply Separator____________________
    Author: GKor_at_rdw.nl
    Date: 10/23/2002 11:48 PM

    goodmorning
    everybody who responded to my basic question : thanks

    summary

    professional : use oracle enterprise edition
    semi professional : use oracle standard edition / mssql enterprise edition
    in all other cases mssql standard edition
    -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
    Van: Mohammad Rafiq [SMTP:rafiq9857_at_hotmail.com]
    Verzonden: woensdag 23 oktober 2002 20:51
    Aan: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Onderwerp: RE: oracle or mssql >
    Xenix is history now...SCO itself stopped it sometime in 1990




    Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:02:19 -0800 >
    XENIX maybe. >
    : ) >
    Regards,
    Patrice Boivin
    Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
    Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
    Technology Services | Services technologiques
    Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
    Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO
    E-Mail: boivinp_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:59 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    Is MSSQL server available on UNIX? >
    -Rachna
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Boivin, Patrice J
    INET: BoivinP_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
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    _________________________________________________________________
    Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access!
    http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp >
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    Author:
    INET: dgoulet_at_vicr.com

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    --
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    Author: Jenner Mike
    INET: M.Jenner_at_southampton.gov.uk

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    --
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    Author: Yechiel Adar
    INET: adar76_at_inter.net.il

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    --
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    Author:
    INET: Jared.Still_at_radisys.com

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    Author: Mercadante, Thomas F
    INET: NDATFM_at_labor.state.ny.us

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    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    www.telewest.co.uk

    The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.
    Statements and opinions expressed in this e-mail may not represent those of the company. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from any computer.

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    Author: Adrian Roe
    INET: Adrian.Roe_at_telewest.co.uk

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  • Mercadante, Thomas F at Oct 31, 2002 at 12:48 pm ⇧
    I agree with you Mike. I think the way Oracle treats this whole issue makes
    complete sense. Everything is under the complete control of the programmer.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 7:58 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    From my experience it is not acceptable to be wrong with the data 1/1000 of
    the time. You commit the transaction and it is done. You roll a transaction

    back for a reason.
    From: "Mercadante, Thomas F"
    Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Subject: RE: RE: oracle or mssql
    Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:42:30 -0800

    It sounds like he is saying that, once an "insert, update or delete"
    statement has been issued (without a following commit), then the records
    acted upon are now considered "dirty" - i.e. needing writing to disk.

    this is, of course, NOT what Oracle considers a dirty block.

    I agree with you, Jared!

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 1:21 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    At least one of us has the incorrect understanding of 'dirty' reads,
    or I am taking you too literally, or something.

    What are you really saying?

    Oracle does not allow dirty reads.

    All queries are consistent to a point in time, the beginning
    of a transaction, whether implicit (select) or explicit ( start
    transaction ).

    SQL Server and Sybase do not guarantee this.

    The 'dirty' reads you are speaking of sound more to me
    like sloppy programming.

    Is that what you're referring to?

    Jared






    "Yechiel Adar"
    Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com
    10/30/2002 08:54 AM
    Please respond to ORACLE-L


    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    cc:
    Subject: Re: RE: oracle or mssql


    I would like to point out that what you call "dirty reads" are mostly
    the correct reads. Oracle method IS the dirty read.

    I am sure that your users does at least 1000 commits to every rollback.
    So when oracle gives you the data it already knows that this data is
    wrong. If you do the query again a minute later you will get new results
    that were available when you did the original query but were committed
    later. So you get a 1000/1 chance to get incorrect data.

    The "dirty read" method, on the other hand, gives you the current values,
    believing that they will be committed in a moment. So you get 1/1000
    chance
    to get wrong data.

    Which odds will you bet on?

    Yechiel Adar
    Mehish
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 2:18 PM


    List,
    I'm always keen to refresh on database comparisons so thanks for
    everyone's pointers.

    I'm surprised Oracle doesn't make more of an issue about their locking and
    concurrency methods (i.e. redo/rollback/undo).

    MSSQL seems to deal with it in two ways:
    Default: readers and writers prevent writers from accessing data until
    they
    are finished with it!
    Other method: no control, you just get dirty reads!

    Anyone got anything to add to this? Or am I wrong?

    - Mike.


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 24 October 2002 17:29
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    As I said, use mssql ONLY if your boss is willing to be strapped into a
    MicroSlop only platform. If he's even remotely thinking of using a
    different OS
    then you can't use mssql.

    Dick Goulet

    ____________________Reply Separator____________________
    Author: GKor_at_rdw.nl
    Date: 10/23/2002 11:48 PM

    goodmorning
    everybody who responded to my basic question : thanks

    summary

    professional : use oracle enterprise edition
    semi professional : use oracle standard edition / mssql enterprise edition
    in all other cases mssql standard edition


    -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
    Van: Mohammad Rafiq [SMTP:rafiq9857_at_hotmail.com]
    Verzonden: woensdag 23 oktober 2002 20:51
    Aan: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Onderwerp: RE: oracle or mssql

    Xenix is history now...SCO itself stopped it sometime in 1990






    Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:02:19 -0800

    XENIX maybe.

    : )

    Regards,
    Patrice Boivin
    Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

    Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systemes
    Technology Services | Services technologiques
    Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
    Maritimes Region, DFO | Region des Maritimes, MPO

    E-Mail: boivinp_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca




    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:59 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    Is MSSQL server available on UNIX?

    -Rachna
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Boivin, Patrice J
    INET: BoivinP_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca

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    _________________________________________________________________
    Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access!
    http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp

    --
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    INET: rafiq9857_at_hotmail.com

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    --
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    Author:
    INET: dgoulet_at_vicr.com

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    Author: Jenner Mike
    INET: M.Jenner_at_southampton.gov.uk

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    Author: Yechiel Adar
    INET: adar76_at_inter.net.il

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    Author:
    INET: Jared.Still_at_radisys.com

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    Author: Mercadante, Thomas F
    INET: NDATFM_at_labor.state.ny.us

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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
    Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access!
    http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp

    --
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    Author: Mike Killough
    INET: mwkillough_at_hotmail.com

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    Author: Mercadante, Thomas F
    INET: NDATFM_at_labor.state.ny.us

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  • Jenner Mike at Oct 31, 2002 at 1:53 pm ⇧
    Yep, Thanks for a key point Mike.

    If you read data that might never be stored (on the assumption that it is
    usually correct) that kind of state would you be in?

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 31 October 2002 00:58
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    From my experience it is not acceptable to be wrong with the data 1/1000 of
    the time. You commit the transaction and it is done. You roll a transaction

    back for a reason.
    From: "Mercadante, Thomas F"
    Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Subject: RE: RE: oracle or mssql
    Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:42:30 -0800

    It sounds like he is saying that, once an "insert, update or delete"
    statement has been issued (without a following commit), then the records
    acted upon are now considered "dirty" - i.e. needing writing to disk.

    this is, of course, NOT what Oracle considers a dirty block.

    I agree with you, Jared!

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 1:21 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    At least one of us has the incorrect understanding of 'dirty' reads,
    or I am taking you too literally, or something.

    What are you really saying?

    Oracle does not allow dirty reads.

    All queries are consistent to a point in time, the beginning
    of a transaction, whether implicit (select) or explicit ( start
    transaction ).

    SQL Server and Sybase do not guarantee this.

    The 'dirty' reads you are speaking of sound more to me
    like sloppy programming.

    Is that what you're referring to?

    Jared






    "Yechiel Adar"
    Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com
    10/30/2002 08:54 AM
    Please respond to ORACLE-L


    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    cc:
    Subject: Re: RE: oracle or mssql


    I would like to point out that what you call "dirty reads" are mostly
    the correct reads. Oracle method IS the dirty read.

    I am sure that your users does at least 1000 commits to every rollback.
    So when oracle gives you the data it already knows that this data is
    wrong. If you do the query again a minute later you will get new results
    that were available when you did the original query but were committed
    later. So you get a 1000/1 chance to get incorrect data.

    The "dirty read" method, on the other hand, gives you the current values,
    believing that they will be committed in a moment. So you get 1/1000
    chance
    to get wrong data.

    Which odds will you bet on?

    Yechiel Adar
    Mehish
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 2:18 PM


    List,
    I'm always keen to refresh on database comparisons so thanks for
    everyone's pointers.

    I'm surprised Oracle doesn't make more of an issue about their locking and
    concurrency methods (i.e. redo/rollback/undo).

    MSSQL seems to deal with it in two ways:
    Default: readers and writers prevent writers from accessing data until
    they
    are finished with it!
    Other method: no control, you just get dirty reads!

    Anyone got anything to add to this? Or am I wrong?

    - Mike.


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 24 October 2002 17:29
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    As I said, use mssql ONLY if your boss is willing to be strapped into a
    MicroSlop only platform. If he's even remotely thinking of using a
    different OS
    then you can't use mssql.

    Dick Goulet

    ____________________Reply Separator____________________
    Author: GKor_at_rdw.nl
    Date: 10/23/2002 11:48 PM

    goodmorning
    everybody who responded to my basic question : thanks

    summary

    professional : use oracle enterprise edition
    semi professional : use oracle standard edition / mssql enterprise edition
    in all other cases mssql standard edition


    -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
    Van: Mohammad Rafiq [SMTP:rafiq9857_at_hotmail.com]
    Verzonden: woensdag 23 oktober 2002 20:51
    Aan: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Onderwerp: RE: oracle or mssql

    Xenix is history now...SCO itself stopped it sometime in 1990






    Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:02:19 -0800

    XENIX maybe.

    : )

    Regards,
    Patrice Boivin
    Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

    Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
    Technology Services | Services technologiques
    Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
    Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO

    E-Mail: boivinp_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca




    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:59 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    Is MSSQL server available on UNIX?

    -Rachna
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    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
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    Author: Boivin, Patrice J
    INET: BoivinP_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca

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    Author: Jenner Mike
    INET: M.Jenner_at_southampton.gov.uk

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    Author: Yechiel Adar
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    Author:
    INET: Jared.Still_at_radisys.com

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    Author: Mercadante, Thomas F
    INET: NDATFM_at_labor.state.ny.us

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    Author: Jenner Mike
    INET: M.Jenner_at_southampton.gov.uk

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  • Jenner Mike at Oct 31, 2002 at 2:03 pm ⇧
    But this default mssql behaviour is the performance 'gotcha' where readers
    block writers and writers block readers isn't it?

    Mike.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 31 October 2002 09:12
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    'Dirty reads' in SQL Server means that you can view records that have not
    been committed. This is implemented by setting the TRANSACTION ISOLATION
    LEVEL to READ UNCOMMITTED.

    This is not default behaviour in SQL Server, the default TIL is READ
    COMMITTED (for very good reason). I can think of very few situations where
    you would want to see uncommitted records.

    Dirty blocks in SQL Server/Oracle are the same thing ie. a block/page in
    cache that has been changed but not flushed to disk.

    Ade

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 30 October 2002 18:43
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    It sounds like he is saying that, once an "insert, update or delete"
    statement has been issued (without a following commit), then the records
    acted upon are now considered "dirty" - i.e. needing writing to disk.

    this is, of course, NOT what Oracle considers a dirty block.

    I agree with you, Jared!

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 1:21 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    At least one of us has the incorrect understanding of 'dirty' reads,
    or I am taking you too literally, or something.

    What are you really saying?

    Oracle does not allow dirty reads.

    All queries are consistent to a point in time, the beginning
    of a transaction, whether implicit (select) or explicit ( start
    transaction ).

    SQL Server and Sybase do not guarantee this.

    The 'dirty' reads you are speaking of sound more to me
    like sloppy programming.

    Is that what you're referring to?

    Jared

    "Yechiel Adar"
    Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com
    10/30/2002 08:54 AM
    Please respond to ORACLE-L



    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    cc:
    Subject: Re: RE: oracle or mssql

    I would like to point out that what you call "dirty reads" are mostly
    the correct reads. Oracle method IS the dirty read.

    I am sure that your users does at least 1000 commits to every rollback.
    So when oracle gives you the data it already knows that this data is
    wrong. If you do the query again a minute later you will get new results
    that were available when you did the original query but were committed
    later. So you get a 1000/1 chance to get incorrect data.

    The "dirty read" method, on the other hand, gives you the current values,
    believing that they will be committed in a moment. So you get 1/1000
    chance
    to get wrong data.

    Which odds will you bet on?

    Yechiel Adar
    Mehish
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 2:18 PM

    List,
    I'm always keen to refresh on database comparisons so thanks for
    everyone's pointers.

    I'm surprised Oracle doesn't make more of an issue about their locking and
    concurrency methods (i.e. redo/rollback/undo).

    MSSQL seems to deal with it in two ways:
    Default: readers and writers prevent writers from accessing data until
    they
    are finished with it!
    Other method: no control, you just get dirty reads!

    Anyone got anything to add to this? Or am I wrong?

    Mike.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 24 October 2002 17:29
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    As I said, use mssql ONLY if your boss is willing to be strapped into a
    MicroSlop only platform. If he's even remotely thinking of using a
    different OS
    then you can't use mssql.

    Dick Goulet

    ____________________Reply Separator____________________
    Author: GKor_at_rdw.nl
    Date: 10/23/2002 11:48 PM

    goodmorning
    everybody who responded to my basic question : thanks

    summary

    professional : use oracle enterprise edition
    semi professional : use oracle standard edition / mssql enterprise edition
    in all other cases mssql standard edition
    -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
    Van: Mohammad Rafiq [SMTP:rafiq9857_at_hotmail.com]
    Verzonden: woensdag 23 oktober 2002 20:51
    Aan: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Onderwerp: RE: oracle or mssql
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Jenner Mike
    INET: M.Jenner_at_southampton.gov.uk

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
    San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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    (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
  • Jack van Zanen at Oct 31, 2002 at 3:03 pm ⇧
    My limited knowledge of MySQL had me testing this once, and yes AFAIK it is

    Jack

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 3:04 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    But this default mssql behaviour is the performance 'gotcha' where readers
    block writers and writers block readers isn't it?

    Mike.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 31 October 2002 09:12
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    'Dirty reads' in SQL Server means that you can view records that have not
    been committed. This is implemented by setting the TRANSACTION ISOLATION
    LEVEL to READ UNCOMMITTED.

    This is not default behaviour in SQL Server, the default TIL is READ
    COMMITTED (for very good reason). I can think of very few situations where
    you would want to see uncommitted records.

    Dirty blocks in SQL Server/Oracle are the same thing ie. a block/page in
    cache that has been changed but not flushed to disk.

    Ade

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 30 October 2002 18:43
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    It sounds like he is saying that, once an "insert, update or delete"
    statement has been issued (without a following commit), then the records
    acted upon are now considered "dirty" - i.e. needing writing to disk.

    this is, of course, NOT what Oracle considers a dirty block.

    I agree with you, Jared!

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 1:21 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    At least one of us has the incorrect understanding of 'dirty' reads,
    or I am taking you too literally, or something.

    What are you really saying?

    Oracle does not allow dirty reads.

    All queries are consistent to a point in time, the beginning
    of a transaction, whether implicit (select) or explicit ( start
    transaction ).

    SQL Server and Sybase do not guarantee this.

    The 'dirty' reads you are speaking of sound more to me
    like sloppy programming.

    Is that what you're referring to?

    Jared

    "Yechiel Adar"
    Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com
    10/30/2002 08:54 AM
    Please respond to ORACLE-L



    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    cc:
    Subject: Re: RE: oracle or mssql

    I would like to point out that what you call "dirty reads" are mostly
    the correct reads. Oracle method IS the dirty read.

    I am sure that your users does at least 1000 commits to every rollback.
    So when oracle gives you the data it already knows that this data is
    wrong. If you do the query again a minute later you will get new results
    that were available when you did the original query but were committed
    later. So you get a 1000/1 chance to get incorrect data.

    The "dirty read" method, on the other hand, gives you the current values,
    believing that they will be committed in a moment. So you get 1/1000
    chance
    to get wrong data.

    Which odds will you bet on?

    Yechiel Adar
    Mehish
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 2:18 PM

    List,
    I'm always keen to refresh on database comparisons so thanks for
    everyone's pointers.

    I'm surprised Oracle doesn't make more of an issue about their locking and
    concurrency methods (i.e. redo/rollback/undo).

    MSSQL seems to deal with it in two ways:
    Default: readers and writers prevent writers from accessing data until
    they
    are finished with it!
    Other method: no control, you just get dirty reads!

    Anyone got anything to add to this? Or am I wrong?

    Mike.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 24 October 2002 17:29
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    As I said, use mssql ONLY if your boss is willing to be strapped into a
    MicroSlop only platform. If he's even remotely thinking of using a
    different OS
    then you can't use mssql.

    Dick Goulet

    ____________________Reply Separator____________________
    Author: GKor_at_rdw.nl
    Date: 10/23/2002 11:48 PM

    goodmorning
    everybody who responded to my basic question : thanks

    summary

    professional : use oracle enterprise edition
    semi professional : use oracle standard edition / mssql enterprise edition
    in all other cases mssql standard edition
    -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
    Van: Mohammad Rafiq [SMTP:rafiq9857_at_hotmail.com]
    Verzonden: woensdag 23 oktober 2002 20:51
    Aan: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Onderwerp: RE: oracle or mssql
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Jenner Mike
    INET: M.Jenner_at_southampton.gov.uk

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
    San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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    (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
    --
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    Author: Jack van Zanen
    INET: JACK_at_QUANTSYSTEMS.NL

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  • Adrian Roe at Oct 31, 2002 at 3:18 pm ⇧
    I don't see it as a gotcha, I've worked with SQL Server for almost 6 years
    on some pretty big databases and have never had a problem.

    At the end of the day, locking is at the row level, locks are held for a
    very short time (unless developers don't know what they are doing). A read
    will take a shared row level lock for a sub-second period of time
    (potentially), if your update is blocked for 0.2 seconds are you going to
    notice ? You have to realise that with row level locking the scope for
    blocking is minimal.

    Ade

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 31 October 2002 14:04
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    But this default mssql behaviour is the performance 'gotcha' where readers
    block writers and writers block readers isn't it?

    Mike.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 31 October 2002 09:12
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    'Dirty reads' in SQL Server means that you can view records that have not
    been committed. This is implemented by setting the TRANSACTION ISOLATION
    LEVEL to READ UNCOMMITTED.

    This is not default behaviour in SQL Server, the default TIL is READ
    COMMITTED (for very good reason). I can think of very few situations where
    you would want to see uncommitted records.

    Dirty blocks in SQL Server/Oracle are the same thing ie. a block/page in
    cache that has been changed but not flushed to disk.

    Ade

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 30 October 2002 18:43
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    It sounds like he is saying that, once an "insert, update or delete"
    statement has been issued (without a following commit), then the records
    acted upon are now considered "dirty" - i.e. needing writing to disk.

    this is, of course, NOT what Oracle considers a dirty block.

    I agree with you, Jared!

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 1:21 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    At least one of us has the incorrect understanding of 'dirty' reads,
    or I am taking you too literally, or something.

    What are you really saying?

    Oracle does not allow dirty reads.

    All queries are consistent to a point in time, the beginning
    of a transaction, whether implicit (select) or explicit ( start
    transaction ).

    SQL Server and Sybase do not guarantee this.

    The 'dirty' reads you are speaking of sound more to me
    like sloppy programming.

    Is that what you're referring to?

    Jared

    "Yechiel Adar"
    Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com
    10/30/2002 08:54 AM
    Please respond to ORACLE-L



    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    cc:
    Subject: Re: RE: oracle or mssql

    I would like to point out that what you call "dirty reads" are mostly
    the correct reads. Oracle method IS the dirty read.

    I am sure that your users does at least 1000 commits to every rollback.
    So when oracle gives you the data it already knows that this data is
    wrong. If you do the query again a minute later you will get new results
    that were available when you did the original query but were committed
    later. So you get a 1000/1 chance to get incorrect data.

    The "dirty read" method, on the other hand, gives you the current values,
    believing that they will be committed in a moment. So you get 1/1000
    chance
    to get wrong data.

    Which odds will you bet on?

    Yechiel Adar
    Mehish
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 2:18 PM

    List,
    I'm always keen to refresh on database comparisons so thanks for
    everyone's pointers.

    I'm surprised Oracle doesn't make more of an issue about their locking and
    concurrency methods (i.e. redo/rollback/undo).

    MSSQL seems to deal with it in two ways:
    Default: readers and writers prevent writers from accessing data until
    they
    are finished with it!
    Other method: no control, you just get dirty reads!

    Anyone got anything to add to this? Or am I wrong?

    Mike.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 24 October 2002 17:29
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    As I said, use mssql ONLY if your boss is willing to be strapped into a
    MicroSlop only platform. If he's even remotely thinking of using a
    different OS
    then you can't use mssql.

    Dick Goulet

    ____________________Reply Separator____________________
    Author: GKor_at_rdw.nl
    Date: 10/23/2002 11:48 PM

    goodmorning
    everybody who responded to my basic question : thanks

    summary

    professional : use oracle enterprise edition
    semi professional : use oracle standard edition / mssql enterprise edition
    in all other cases mssql standard edition
    -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
    Van: Mohammad Rafiq [SMTP:rafiq9857_at_hotmail.com]
    Verzonden: woensdag 23 oktober 2002 20:51
    Aan: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Onderwerp: RE: oracle or mssql
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Jenner Mike
    INET: M.Jenner_at_southampton.gov.uk

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
    San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
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    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    Author: Adrian Roe
    INET: Adrian.Roe_at_telewest.co.uk

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  • Yechiel Adar at Oct 31, 2002 at 3:38 pm ⇧
    I meant that the data itself is dirty, i.e. - incorrect at the time of
    reading.

    As for the correct behavior - check ADABAS database. They are allowing what
    you called dirty reads and they are used in the mainframe all over.

    This is a design point in the database that you have to live with.
    At least, in the ADABAS way you are more correct then incorrect to the tune
    of 1000's to one.

    I just got steamed up because he called it "dirty" reads. To my taste they
    are uncommitted changes.

    Yechiel Adar
    Mehish
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 8:42 PM
    It sounds like he is saying that, once an "insert, update or delete"
    statement has been issued (without a following commit), then the records
    acted upon are now considered "dirty" - i.e. needing writing to disk.

    this is, of course, NOT what Oracle considers a dirty block.

    I agree with you, Jared!

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 1:21 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    At least one of us has the incorrect understanding of 'dirty' reads,
    or I am taking you too literally, or something.

    What are you really saying?

    Oracle does not allow dirty reads.

    All queries are consistent to a point in time, the beginning
    of a transaction, whether implicit (select) or explicit ( start
    transaction ).

    SQL Server and Sybase do not guarantee this.

    The 'dirty' reads you are speaking of sound more to me
    like sloppy programming.

    Is that what you're referring to?

    Jared






    "Yechiel Adar"
    Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com
    10/30/2002 08:54 AM
    Please respond to ORACLE-L


    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    cc:
    Subject: Re: RE: oracle or mssql


    I would like to point out that what you call "dirty reads" are mostly
    the correct reads. Oracle method IS the dirty read.

    I am sure that your users does at least 1000 commits to every rollback.
    So when oracle gives you the data it already knows that this data is
    wrong. If you do the query again a minute later you will get new results
    that were available when you did the original query but were committed
    later. So you get a 1000/1 chance to get incorrect data.

    The "dirty read" method, on the other hand, gives you the current values,
    believing that they will be committed in a moment. So you get 1/1000
    chance
    to get wrong data.

    Which odds will you bet on?

    Yechiel Adar
    Mehish
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 2:18 PM


    List,
    I'm always keen to refresh on database comparisons so thanks for
    everyone's pointers.

    I'm surprised Oracle doesn't make more of an issue about their locking and
    concurrency methods (i.e. redo/rollback/undo).

    MSSQL seems to deal with it in two ways:
    Default: readers and writers prevent writers from accessing data until
    they
    are finished with it!
    Other method: no control, you just get dirty reads!

    Anyone got anything to add to this? Or am I wrong?

    - Mike.


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 24 October 2002 17:29
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    As I said, use mssql ONLY if your boss is willing to be strapped into a
    MicroSlop only platform. If he's even remotely thinking of using a
    different OS
    then you can't use mssql.

    Dick Goulet

    ____________________Reply Separator____________________
    Author: GKor_at_rdw.nl
    Date: 10/23/2002 11:48 PM

    goodmorning
    everybody who responded to my basic question : thanks

    summary

    professional : use oracle enterprise edition
    semi professional : use oracle standard edition / mssql enterprise edition
    in all other cases mssql standard edition


    -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
    Van: Mohammad Rafiq [SMTP:rafiq9857_at_hotmail.com]
    Verzonden: woensdag 23 oktober 2002 20:51
    Aan: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Onderwerp: RE: oracle or mssql

    Xenix is history now...SCO itself stopped it sometime in 1990






    Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:02:19 -0800

    XENIX maybe.

    : )

    Regards,
    Patrice Boivin
    Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

    Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
    Technology Services | Services technologiques
    Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
    Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO

    E-Mail: boivinp_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca




    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:59 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    Is MSSQL server available on UNIX?

    -Rachna
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    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
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    INET: BoivinP_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca

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    INET: NDATFM_at_labor.state.ny.us

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  • Igor Neyman at Oct 31, 2002 at 5:19 pm ⇧
    Disagree.

    "row-level" locking in SQL Server was introduced in some capacity only in
    SQL Server 7 (not long time ago).
    Before, it was "block-level" locking, and I saw lots of problems with that.
    It's not the length of the single statement (select/update/...) that
    matters. It's the length of the transaction, that causes a problem, if
    "block_level" locking is used (and could be automatically escalated to
    "extent" or even "table" level lock).

    Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
    ineyman_at_perceptron.com

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 10:18 AM
    I don't see it as a gotcha, I've worked with SQL Server for almost 6 years
    on some pretty big databases and have never had a problem.

    At the end of the day, locking is at the row level, locks are held for a
    very short time (unless developers don't know what they are doing). A read
    will take a shared row level lock for a sub-second period of time
    (potentially), if your update is blocked for 0.2 seconds are you going to
    notice ? You have to realise that with row level locking the scope for
    blocking is minimal.

    Ade

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 31 October 2002 14:04
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



    But this default mssql behaviour is the performance 'gotcha' where readers
    block writers and writers block readers isn't it?


    Mike.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 31 October 2002 09:12
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    'Dirty reads' in SQL Server means that you can view records that have not
    been committed. This is implemented by setting the TRANSACTION ISOLATION
    LEVEL to READ UNCOMMITTED.

    This is not default behaviour in SQL Server, the default TIL is READ
    COMMITTED (for very good reason). I can think of very few situations where
    you would want to see uncommitted records.

    Dirty blocks in SQL Server/Oracle are the same thing ie. a block/page in
    cache that has been changed but not flushed to disk.

    Ade

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 30 October 2002 18:43
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    It sounds like he is saying that, once an "insert, update or delete"
    statement has been issued (without a following commit), then the records
    acted upon are now considered "dirty" - i.e. needing writing to disk.

    this is, of course, NOT what Oracle considers a dirty block.

    I agree with you, Jared!

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 1:21 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    At least one of us has the incorrect understanding of 'dirty' reads,
    or I am taking you too literally, or something.

    What are you really saying?

    Oracle does not allow dirty reads.

    All queries are consistent to a point in time, the beginning
    of a transaction, whether implicit (select) or explicit ( start
    transaction ).

    SQL Server and Sybase do not guarantee this.

    The 'dirty' reads you are speaking of sound more to me
    like sloppy programming.

    Is that what you're referring to?

    Jared






    "Yechiel Adar"
    Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com
    10/30/2002 08:54 AM
    Please respond to ORACLE-L


    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    cc:
    Subject: Re: RE: oracle or mssql


    I would like to point out that what you call "dirty reads" are mostly
    the correct reads. Oracle method IS the dirty read.

    I am sure that your users does at least 1000 commits to every rollback.
    So when oracle gives you the data it already knows that this data is
    wrong. If you do the query again a minute later you will get new results
    that were available when you did the original query but were committed
    later. So you get a 1000/1 chance to get incorrect data.

    The "dirty read" method, on the other hand, gives you the current values,
    believing that they will be committed in a moment. So you get 1/1000
    chance
    to get wrong data.

    Which odds will you bet on?

    Yechiel Adar
    Mehish
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 2:18 PM


    List,
    I'm always keen to refresh on database comparisons so thanks for
    everyone's pointers.

    I'm surprised Oracle doesn't make more of an issue about their locking and
    concurrency methods (i.e. redo/rollback/undo).

    MSSQL seems to deal with it in two ways:
    Default: readers and writers prevent writers from accessing data until
    they
    are finished with it!
    Other method: no control, you just get dirty reads!

    Anyone got anything to add to this? Or am I wrong?

    - Mike.


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 24 October 2002 17:29
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    As I said, use mssql ONLY if your boss is willing to be strapped into a
    MicroSlop only platform. If he's even remotely thinking of using a
    different OS
    then you can't use mssql.

    Dick Goulet

    ____________________Reply Separator____________________
    Author: GKor_at_rdw.nl
    Date: 10/23/2002 11:48 PM

    goodmorning
    everybody who responded to my basic question : thanks

    summary

    professional : use oracle enterprise edition
    semi professional : use oracle standard edition / mssql enterprise edition
    in all other cases mssql standard edition


    -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
    Van: Mohammad Rafiq [SMTP:rafiq9857_at_hotmail.com]
    Verzonden: woensdag 23 oktober 2002 20:51
    Aan: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Onderwerp: RE: oracle or mssql
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Jenner Mike
    INET: M.Jenner_at_southampton.gov.uk

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  • Stephen Lee at Oct 31, 2002 at 5:28 pm ⇧

    -----Original Message-----

    I just got steamed up because he called it "dirty" reads. To
    my taste they
    are uncommitted changes.
    Perhaps it would be better to use Oracle's non-judgmental and eminently more
    politically correct terminology of "consistent" versus "inconsistent".

    --
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    --
    Author: Stephen Lee
    INET: slee_at_dollar.com

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  • Tim Gorman at Oct 31, 2002 at 10:49 pm ⇧
    Any database engine that offers dirty-reads as an "option" is doing so
    because it hasn't perfected the ability to avoid them.

    The dust settled on this issue over a decade ago. Check out Gray and Reuter
    "Transaction Processing: Concepts and Techniques" (ISBN: 1558601902 - it'll
    be in any college library) and read the section on the ACID properties,
    especially the sections on "C" for "consistency" and "I" for "isolation"...

    Oracle is doing the best thing. It supplies "statement-level
    read-consistency" by default. The ACID properties advise "transaction-level
    read-consistency" and Oracle offers that option, but it is not advisable to
    use it unless you are using a transaction-processing monitor besides...

    Thousand-to-one odds are awful. You can run across the "exception" millions
    of times per day. 90% of all coding is created to deal with 10% or
    less of the possible situations...

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 9:54 AM
    I would like to point out that what you call "dirty reads" are mostly
    the correct reads. Oracle method IS the dirty read.

    I am sure that your users does at least 1000 commits to every rollback.
    So when oracle gives you the data it already knows that this data is
    wrong. If you do the query again a minute later you will get new results
    that were available when you did the original query but were committed
    later. So you get a 1000/1 chance to get incorrect data.

    The "dirty read" method, on the other hand, gives you the current values,
    believing that they will be committed in a moment. So you get 1/1000 chance
    to get wrong data.

    Which odds will you bet on?

    Yechiel Adar
    Mehish
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 2:18 PM


    List,
    I'm always keen to refresh on database comparisons so thanks for
    everyone's pointers.

    I'm surprised Oracle doesn't make more of an issue about their locking and
    concurrency methods (i.e. redo/rollback/undo).

    MSSQL seems to deal with it in two ways:
    Default: readers and writers prevent writers from accessing data until they
    are finished with it!
    Other method: no control, you just get dirty reads!

    Anyone got anything to add to this? Or am I wrong?

    - Mike.


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: 24 October 2002 17:29
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    As I said, use mssql ONLY if your boss is willing to be strapped into a
    MicroSlop only platform. If he's even remotely thinking of using a
    different OS
    then you can't use mssql.

    Dick Goulet

    ____________________Reply Separator____________________
    Author: GKor_at_rdw.nl
    Date: 10/23/2002 11:48 PM

    goodmorning
    everybody who responded to my basic question : thanks

    summary

    professional : use oracle enterprise edition
    semi professional : use oracle standard edition / mssql enterprise edition
    in all other cases mssql standard edition


    -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
    Van: Mohammad Rafiq [SMTP:rafiq9857_at_hotmail.com]
    Verzonden: woensdag 23 oktober 2002 20:51
    Aan: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Onderwerp: RE: oracle or mssql

    Xenix is history now...SCO itself stopped it sometime in 1990






    Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:02:19 -0800

    XENIX maybe.

    : )

    Regards,
    Patrice Boivin
    Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

    Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
    Technology Services | Services technologiques
    Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
    Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO

    E-Mail: boivinp_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca




    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:59 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    Is MSSQL server available on UNIX?

    -Rachna
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Boivin, Patrice J
    INET: BoivinP_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca

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grouporacle-l @
categoriesoracle
postedOct 24, '02 at 4:29p
activeOct 31, '02 at 10:49p
posts17
users12
websiteoracle.com

12 users in discussion

Jenner Mike: 3 posts Mercadante, Thomas F: 2 posts Yechiel Adar: 2 posts Adrian Roe: 2 posts Jared.Still_at_radisys.com: 1 post Stephen Lee: 1 post Mike Killough: 1 post Igor Neyman: 1 post Jack van Zanen: 1 post Dgoulet_at_vicr.com: 1 post Tim Gorman: 1 post Tom Pall: 1 post

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