FAQ
Hello,

I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
moves the files to tape.

Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

Robyn

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  • Ray Stell at Oct 3, 2002 at 1:13 am
    Yes, you can use dd to read a tape.

    from man dd:

    Example 3: Reading a Tape Into an ASCII File

    This example reads an EBCDIC tape blocked ten 80-byte EBCDIC
    card images per block into the ASCII file x:

    example% dd if=/dev/tape of=x ibs=800 cbs=80 conv=ascii,lcase

    Are you going to sleep well until you have tested and documented
    the recovery procedure? No.
    On Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at 04:08:27PM -0800, Robyn Anderson Sands wrote:
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
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    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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    ===============================================================
    Ray Stell stellr_at_vt.edu (540) 231-4109 KE4TJC 28^D
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    Author: Ray Stell
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  • Tim Gorman at Oct 3, 2002 at 2:13 am
    I've relied on "dd", mainly when working with "raw" devices. "dd" is
    probably one of the oldest commands in the UNIX lexicon. It's just another
    way to get the job done...

    RMAN is a *much* better solution. After all, how are these exports, backup
    scripts, and what-not going to check the database for block corruption? For
    archived redo logfile corruption? How will someone be able to determine how
    many backups are on tape for each datafile and archived redo logfile? Can
    you do trial restores, to test what's on tape? Will any restore/recovery
    scenarios be scripted?

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 6:08 PM
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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    Author: Tim Gorman
    INET: Tim_at_SageLogix.com

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  • Robyn Anderson Sands at Oct 3, 2002 at 4:18 am
    Thank you for the response - I especially liked (& agreed with) the
    rant. You expressed many of the same concerns that I have, but this is
    a small operation and there's a lot to clean up. The application was
    installed in the system schema, the users all had 'SYSTEM' for their
    temporary tablespace, dual had 121 rows in it, backup was copying the
    wrong $ORACLE_HOME, the database and configuration files were in
    'unusual' locations and the developer uses a where clause to sequence
    his results instead of specifying 'order by'. Did I mention there's no
    test server?

    Maybe I'll get them on RMAN eventually, and I will be testing the
    recovery process, but for now, I'll just be happy to get a complete
    backup on tape. If anyone is aware of potential pitfalls to watch out
    for until the situation can be improved, I'd appreciate add'l input.

    Robyn

    Tim Gorman wrote:
    I've relied on "dd", mainly when working with "raw" devices. "dd" is
    probably one of the oldest commands in the UNIX lexicon. It's just another
    way to get the job done...


    RMAN is a *much* better solution. After all, how are these exports, backup
    scripts, and what-not going to check the database for block corruption? For
    archived redo logfile corruption? How will someone be able to determine how
    many backups are on tape for each datafile and archived redo logfile? Can
    you do trial restores, to test what's on tape? Will any restore/recovery
    scenarios be scripted?


    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 6:08 PM


    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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    Mobile: 404.234.4873

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  • Ron Rogers at Oct 3, 2002 at 1:08 pm
    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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    Author: Ron Rogers
    INET: RROGERS_at_galottery.org

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  • Ruth Gramolini at Oct 3, 2002 at 2:18 pm
    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM

    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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    Author: Ron Rogers
    INET: RROGERS_at_galottery.org

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    Author: Ruth Gramolini
    INET: rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us

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  • John Weatherman at Oct 3, 2002 at 4:18 pm
    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM

    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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    INET: RROGERS_at_galottery.org

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    Author: Ruth Gramolini
    INET: rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us

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    INET: john.weatherman_at_replacements.com

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  • Naveen Nahata at Oct 3, 2002 at 4:23 pm
    I disagree. ALTER TABLESPACE tblsp_name BEGIN BACKUP, and you can copy the
    datafiles of that tablespace using OS commands and use them for restore

    Regards
    Naveen

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 7:48 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM

    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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    Author: Ron Rogers
    INET: RROGERS_at_galottery.org

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    --
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    --
    Author: Ruth Gramolini
    INET: rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us

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    --
    Author: Naveen Nahata
    INET: naveen_nahata_at_mindtree.com

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  • Ruth Gramolini at Oct 3, 2002 at 5:53 pm
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM

    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM

    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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    --
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    --
    Author: Ron Rogers
    INET: RROGERS_at_galottery.org

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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

    --
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    --
    Author: Ruth Gramolini
    INET: rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us

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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
    --
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    --
    Author: John Weatherman
    INET: john.weatherman_at_replacements.com

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    Author: Ruth Gramolini
    INET: rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us

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  • Markham, Richard at Oct 3, 2002 at 6:03 pm
    It would be interesting to see how you would explain how either
    cp or dd (which know nothing of archive log mode, or the concept
    of hot backup, itself, none the less) is going to keep things
    consistent, when these utilities themselves are for point in
    time operations.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM

    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
    --
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    --
    Author: Ron Rogers
    INET: RROGERS_at_galottery.org

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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

    --
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    --
    Author: Ruth Gramolini
    INET: rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us

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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
    --
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    --
    Author: John Weatherman
    INET: john.weatherman_at_replacements.com

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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

    --
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    --
    Author: Markham, Richard
    INET: RMarkham_at_hafeleamericas.com

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  • Ron Rogers at Oct 3, 2002 at 6:28 pm
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM

    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM

    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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    --
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    Author: Ron Rogers
    INET: RROGERS_at_galottery.org

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    --
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    --
    Author: Ruth Gramolini
    INET: rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us

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    --
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    --
    Author: John Weatherman
    INET: john.weatherman_at_replacements.com

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    Author: Ruth Gramolini
    INET: rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us

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    Author: Ron Rogers
    INET: RROGERS_at_galottery.org

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  • Ruth Gramolini at Oct 3, 2002 at 6:53 pm
    But of course, rman... backup archivelogs delete. Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 2:28 PM

    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM

    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM

    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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    --
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    --
    Author: Ron Rogers
    INET: RROGERS_at_galottery.org

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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

    --
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    --
    Author: Ruth Gramolini
    INET: rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us

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    --
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    INET: john.weatherman_at_replacements.com

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    INET: rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us

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    INET: RROGERS_at_galottery.org

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    Author: Ruth Gramolini
    INET: rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us

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  • Gene Sais at Oct 3, 2002 at 7:13 pm
    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM

    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM

    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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    Author: Gene Sais
    INET: Gsais_at_co.palm-beach.fl.us

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  • Steve McClure at Oct 3, 2002 at 7:43 pm
    RE: BackupsLots of folks here on the list can explain it, but really you
    would get more from the Oracle Backup and Recovery Manual. In short, you
    place your tablespaces in 'backup mode', one TS at a time is the prefered
    method. You backup the datafiles associated with the Tablespaces in backup
    mode, using cp or tar or dd or whatever you prefer. You end backup mode,
    perform a log switch, and backup all archived redo logs created during your
    backup. You do this, and you can restore your backup, and Oracle will, for
    the purposes of this response, magically recover your database.

    Steve McClure
    60% certified and counting
    -----Original Message-----
    From: root_at_fatcity.com On Behalf Of Markham,
    Richard
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 11:03 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Subject: RE: Backups

    It would be interesting to see how you would explain how either
    cp or dd (which know nothing of archive log mode, or the concept
    of hot backup, itself, none the less) is going to keep things
    consistent, when these utilities themselves are for point in
    time operations.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: John Weatherman
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Subject: RE: Backups

    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't
    be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM

    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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    INET: RROGERS_at_galottery.org

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    Author: Ruth Gramolini
    INET: rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us

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    Author: Steve McClure
    INET: smcclure_at_usscript.com

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  • Mercadante, Thomas F at Oct 3, 2002 at 8:17 pm
    I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been
    using Rman. Just not needed anymore.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM

    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM

    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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    INET: RROGERS_at_galottery.org

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    Author: Ruth Gramolini
    INET: rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us

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    INET: john.weatherman_at_replacements.com

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    INET: rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us

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    INET: RROGERS_at_galottery.org

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    Author: Gene Sais
    INET: Gsais_at_co.palm-beach.fl.us

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    Author: Mercadante, Thomas F
    INET: NDATFM_at_labor.state.ny.us

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  • Ruth Gramolini at Oct 3, 2002 at 8:33 pm
    I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM

    I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been
    using Rman. Just not needed anymore.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM

    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM

    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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    INET: RROGERS_at_galottery.org

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    Author: Ruth Gramolini
    INET: rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us

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    INET: john.weatherman_at_replacements.com

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    INET: Gsais_at_co.palm-beach.fl.us

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    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Mercadante, Thomas F
    INET: NDATFM_at_labor.state.ny.us

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    Author: Ruth Gramolini
    INET: rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us

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  • Rajesh.Rao_at_jpmchase.com at Oct 3, 2002 at 9:11 pm
    You are lucky to have all your databases in archivelog mode. We have large
    datawarehouses here, where business is quite acceptable to a recovery from
    a cold backup taken 3 months earlier. RMAN is goooooood, but waiting for
    Oracle to come out with an object point in time recovery, before we can
    completely do away with exports. Not that it cannot be done using RMAN, but
    with limited resources at our disposal, a logical backup and restore is
    much easier. Having said that, we use RMAN for 90% of our databases, and HP
    omniback as the media manager.

    Raj

    "Mercadante,
    Thomas F" To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Subject: RE: Backups
    Sent by:
    root_at_fatcity.com

    October 03, 2002
    04:17 PM
    Please respond
    to ORACLE-L

    I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been
    using Rman. Just not needed anymore.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM

    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM

    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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    (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
    --
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    --
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    INET: RROGERS_at_galottery.org

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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

    --
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    --
    Author: Ruth Gramolini
    INET: rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us

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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
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    INET: john.weatherman_at_replacements.com

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    --
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    Author: Ruth Gramolini
    INET: rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us

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    Author: Gene Sais
    INET: Gsais_at_co.palm-beach.fl.us

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    Author: Mercadante, Thomas F
    INET: NDATFM_at_labor.state.ny.us

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    Author:
    INET: Rajesh.Rao_at_jpmchase.com

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  • Gene Sais at Oct 3, 2002 at 9:54 pm
    wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still be needed on occassion.
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 04:33PM >>>
    I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM

    I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been
    using Rman. Just not needed anymore.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM

    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM

    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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    INET: RROGERS_at_galottery.org

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    --
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    Author: Ruth Gramolini
    INET: rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us

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    --
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    Author: John Weatherman
    INET: john.weatherman_at_replacements.com

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    INET: Gsais_at_co.palm-beach.fl.us

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    INET: NDATFM_at_labor.state.ny.us

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    Author: Gene Sais
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  • DENNIS WILLIAMS at Oct 4, 2002 at 4:08 am
    Ruth, Tom, or anyone

    So what is the final checklist before you take a deep breath and stop
    cold backups. I have successfully run a disaster recovery test, but after so
    many years of the comfort of a cold to go back to, it sorta takes you back.

    Dennis Williams
    DBA

    Lifetouch, Inc.
    dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:33 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM

    I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been
    using Rman. Just not needed anymore.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM

    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM

    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
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    Author: Ron Rogers
    INET: RROGERS_at_galottery.org

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    --
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    --
    Author: Ruth Gramolini
    INET: rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us

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  • Jared Still at Oct 4, 2002 at 5:38 am
    OK, Gene, you asked for it. :)

    The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is
    somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one.

    I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but...

    No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit.;)

    There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup.

    I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying
    you that a hot backup won't deliver.

    Jared
    On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote:
    wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer
    to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his
    way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem
    than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at
    nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when
    that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still
    be needed on occassion.
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 04:33PM >>>
    I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM


    I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been
    using Rman. Just not needed anymore.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM


    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.



    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM


    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

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    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
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    INET: NDATFM_at_labor.state.ny.us

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    Author: Jared Still
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  • Mladen Gogala at Oct 4, 2002 at 6:33 am
    Cold backup is very good because I don't have to monitor database during the
    cold backup, no objects will run out of space and I can enjoy a peaceful time
    without any chance for my beeper to go off. You must admit that a cold backup
    cannot guarantee you that. Unfortunately, my bosses somehow got the curious idea
    that they have paid big bucks for all those HP 9000 to work and not to sit idle. They
    even calculated a downtime cost per hour for each critical system and they are extremely
    reluctant to have them down for extended periods of time (1.1 TB database cannot be
    backed up in minutes, even with Asymmetrix). That is why they bought me a toy called
    OPS and why there are policies and procedures about who and how gets things in the
    production database. I would love to do cold backup every day from 8 PM until 7 AM and
    during Sunday football games but it is not very likely that my wish will come true.
    Starlight, starbright, first star I see tonight, I wish I may, I wish I might have
    the wish I wish tonight. That is my best chance to get cold backups every day.
    On 2002.10.04 01:38 Jared Still wrote:

    OK, Gene, you asked for it. :)

    The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is
    somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one.

    I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but...

    No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit.;)

    There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup.

    I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying
    you that a hot backup won't deliver.

    Jared
    On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote:
    wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer
    to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his
    way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem
    than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at
    nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when
    that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still
    be needed on occassion.
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 04:33PM >>>
    I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM


    I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been
    using Rman. Just not needed anymore.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM


    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.



    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM


    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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  • Gesler, Rich at Oct 4, 2002 at 12:08 pm
    Isn't the "object point in time recovery" called LogMiner? :)

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 5:11 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    You are lucky to have all your databases in archivelog mode. We have large
    datawarehouses here, where business is quite acceptable to a recovery from
    a cold backup taken 3 months earlier. RMAN is goooooood, but waiting for
    Oracle to come out with an object point in time recovery, before we can
    completely do away with exports. Not that it cannot be done using RMAN, but
    with limited resources at our disposal, a logical backup and restore is
    much easier. Having said that, we use RMAN for 90% of our databases, and HP
    omniback as the media manager.

    Raj

    "Mercadante,
    Thomas F" To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Subject: RE: Backups
    Sent by:
    root_at_fatcity.com

    October 03, 2002
    04:17 PM
    Please respond
    to ORACLE-L

    I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been
    using Rman. Just not needed anymore.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM

    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM

    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

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    --
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  • Mercadante, Thomas F at Oct 4, 2002 at 1:18 pm
    Dennis,

    I guess you just gotta have faith after a complete test of various types of
    recovery that the software works. Once it passes all your tests, and you
    are comfortable that it orks as advertised, it's just a matter of going for
    it.

    I am also convinced that Oracle support is able to help with Rman recovery
    as long as you use the software in an approved manner. This is one reason
    that I always stress to people on this list to use Oracle as the
    documentation says to use it - like the discussion the other day about
    putting indexes on SYS objects. Stuff like this gets you in trouble sooner
    or later.

    Cold backups are a good thing for the installed software. Stuff like the OS
    system files, Oracle software etc.

    But, in my view, we (as DBA's) just don't have the luxury anymore of taking
    a database offline for a backup - the costs (both in real $$'s and
    politically) are just too high. Especially when we are provided tools that
    are reliable. And Rman has entered this category.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 12:08 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    Ruth, Tom, or anyone

    So what is the final checklist before you take a deep breath and stop
    cold backups. I have successfully run a disaster recovery test, but after so
    many years of the comfort of a cold to go back to, it sorta takes you back.

    Dennis Williams
    DBA

    Lifetouch, Inc.
    dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:33 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM

    I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been
    using Rman. Just not needed anymore.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM

    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM

    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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    INET: DWILLIAMS_at_LIFETOUCH.COM

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  • Ray Stell at Oct 4, 2002 at 2:03 pm
    One of the local dbas said to me recently that Oracle docs
    indicate that cold backups are required. I did a search and
    could not find what he was talking about. Anyone got such a
    reference?
    On Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 09:38:20PM -0800, Jared Still wrote:

    OK, Gene, you asked for it. :)

    The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is
    somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one.

    I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but...

    No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit.;)

    There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup.

    I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying
    you that a hot backup won't deliver.

    Jared
    On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote:
    wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer
    to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his
    way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem
    than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at
    nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when
    that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still
    be needed on occassion.
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 04:33PM >>>
    I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM


    I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been
    using Rman. Just not needed anymore.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM


    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.



    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM


    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR m???m
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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  • Gene Sais at Oct 4, 2002 at 2:28 pm
    lol, OK my reasons for occasional cold backups. As a prior sysadmin, I prefer single user mode full filesystem backups (i.e. databases shut down) prior to any upgrade whether its an application, database, or operating system. There are benefits of cold over hot backups (of course this assumes you have the luxury to take a database offline):

    Archive logs not needed.

    No need to be concerned which databases are in archivelog mode.

    Easier to backup and restore, even the sysadmin can do it :), i.e. no DBA required, no database recovery. OS utilities can be used for backup/restore.

    Old habits are hard to break :).

    Gene
    jkstill_at_cybcon.com 10/04/02 01:38AM >>>
    OK, Gene, you asked for it. :)

    The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is
    somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one.

    I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but...

    No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit.;)

    There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup.

    I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying
    you that a hot backup won't deliver.

    Jared
    On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote:
    wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer
    to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his
    way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem
    than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at
    nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when
    that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still
    be needed on occassion.
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 04:33PM >>>
    I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM


    I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been
    using Rman. Just not needed anymore.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM


    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.



    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM


    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

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  • Ruth Gramolini at Oct 4, 2002 at 3:18 pm
    I never heard that, and I never do them, except my recovery catalog database
    which I can shut down.

    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 10:03 AM

    One of the local dbas said to me recently that Oracle docs
    indicate that cold backups are required. I did a search and
    could not find what he was talking about. Anyone got such a
    reference?



    On Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 09:38:20PM -0800, Jared Still wrote:

    OK, Gene, you asked for it. :)

    The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is
    somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one.

    I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but...

    No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit.;)

    There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup.

    I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying
    you that a hot backup won't deliver.

    Jared
    On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote:
    wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i
    prefer
    to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have
    his
    way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete
    filesystem
    than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep
    good at
    nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but
    when
    that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will
    still
    be needed on occassion.
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 04:33PM >>>
    I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM


    I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've
    been
    using Rman. Just not needed anymore.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM


    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.



    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM


    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR m???m
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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    Author: Ruth Gramolini
    INET: rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us

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  • Gene Sais at Oct 4, 2002 at 3:48 pm
    Oracle 6 and prior releases required cold backups. Hot backups became available in version 7. The trend appears RMAN is the new way! Still waiting for Robert Freeman's new book :).

    Gene
    stellr_at_cns.vt.edu 10/04/02 10:03AM >>>
    One of the local dbas said to me recently that Oracle docs
    indicate that cold backups are required. I did a search and
    could not find what he was talking about. Anyone got such a
    reference?
    On Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 09:38:20PM -0800, Jared Still wrote:

    OK, Gene, you asked for it. :)

    The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is
    somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one.

    I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but...

    No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit.;)

    There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup.

    I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying
    you that a hot backup won't deliver.

    Jared
    On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote:
    wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer
    to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his
    way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem
    than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at
    nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when
    that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still
    be needed on occassion.
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 04:33PM >>>
    I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM


    I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been
    using Rman. Just not needed anymore.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM


    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.



    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM


    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR m???m
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

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    --
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  • Inka Bezdziecka at Oct 4, 2002 at 4:18 pm
    Not mentioning that there is usually hot in Florida, so cold is good.

    Saying that, I wonder how many people would go into software upgrade or a major change without a full cold backup.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 10:28 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    lol, OK my reasons for occasional cold backups. As a prior sysadmin, I prefer single user mode full filesystem backups (i.e. databases shut down) prior to any upgrade whether its an application, database, or operating system. There are benefits of cold over hot backups (of course this assumes you have the luxury to take a database offline):

    Archive logs not needed.

    No need to be concerned which databases are in archivelog mode.

    Easier to backup and restore, even the sysadmin can do it :), i.e. no DBA required, no database recovery. OS utilities can be used for backup/restore.

    Old habits are hard to break :).

    Gene
    jkstill_at_cybcon.com 10/04/02 01:38AM >>>
    OK, Gene, you asked for it. :)

    The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is
    somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one.

    I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but...

    No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit.;)

    There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup.

    I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying
    you that a hot backup won't deliver.

    Jared
    On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote:
    wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer
    to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his
    way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem
    than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at
    nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when
    that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still
    be needed on occassion.
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 04:33PM >>>
    I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM


    I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been
    using Rman. Just not needed anymore.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM


    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.



    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM


    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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    Author: Inka Bezdziecka
    INET: IBezdziecka_at_cupe.ca

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  • Mercadante, Thomas F at Oct 4, 2002 at 4:18 pm
    I agree with you Ruth.

    Ray, this may be something that your local DBA read in an older manual
    someplace.

    Have your DBA start reading about Rman. If he/she needs to see it in a
    book, it might change his/her mind.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 11:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    I never heard that, and I never do them, except my recovery catalog database
    which I can shut down.

    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 10:03 AM

    One of the local dbas said to me recently that Oracle docs
    indicate that cold backups are required. I did a search and
    could not find what he was talking about. Anyone got such a
    reference?



    On Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 09:38:20PM -0800, Jared Still wrote:

    OK, Gene, you asked for it. :)

    The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is
    somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one.

    I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but...

    No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit.;)

    There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup.

    I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying
    you that a hot backup won't deliver.

    Jared
    On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote:
    wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i
    prefer
    to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have
    his
    way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete
    filesystem
    than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep
    good at
    nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but
    when
    that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will
    still
    be needed on occassion.
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 04:33PM >>>
    I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM


    I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've
    been
    using Rman. Just not needed anymore.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM


    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.



    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM


    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR m???m
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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    Author: Ruth Gramolini
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    ===============================================================
    Ray Stell stellr_at_vt.edu (540) 231-4109 KE4TJC 28^D
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  • Ruth Gramolini at Oct 4, 2002 at 4:43 pm
    I would do a cold backup of the Oracle executables and application stuff but
    I would do an rman level 0 for the database(s).

    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 12:18 PM

    Not mentioning that there is usually hot in Florida, so cold is good.

    Saying that, I wonder how many people would go into software upgrade or a
    major change without a full cold backup.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 10:28 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    lol, OK my reasons for occasional cold backups. As a prior sysadmin, I
    prefer single user mode full filesystem backups (i.e. databases shut down)
    prior to any upgrade whether its an application, database, or operating
    system. There are benefits of cold over hot backups (of course this assumes
    you have the luxury to take a database offline):

    Archive logs not needed.

    No need to be concerned which databases are in archivelog mode.

    Easier to backup and restore, even the sysadmin can do it :), i.e. no DBA
    required, no database recovery. OS utilities can be used for
    backup/restore.

    Old habits are hard to break :).

    Gene
    jkstill_at_cybcon.com 10/04/02 01:38AM >>>
    OK, Gene, you asked for it. :)

    The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is
    somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one.

    I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but...

    No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit.;)

    There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup.

    I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying
    you that a hot backup won't deliver.

    Jared
    On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote:
    wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer
    to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his
    way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem
    than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at
    nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when
    that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still
    be needed on occassion.
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 04:33PM >>>
    I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM


    I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been
    using Rman. Just not needed anymore.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM


    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.



    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM


    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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  • Miller, Jay at Oct 4, 2002 at 5:04 pm
    I believe it shows up in some upgrade documentation. I know our Oracle rep
    recommended it.

    And I'll admit that I did a cold backup before my upgrade rather than hot
    just because it's a little easier to recover from if a problem arises (I
    just padded the downtime for my upgrade to include the cold backup time).

    Jay Miller

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 10:03 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    One of the local dbas said to me recently that Oracle docs
    indicate that cold backups are required. I did a search and
    could not find what he was talking about. Anyone got such a
    reference?
    On Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 09:38:20PM -0800, Jared Still wrote:

    OK, Gene, you asked for it. :)

    The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is
    somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one.

    I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but...

    No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit.;)

    There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup.

    I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying
    you that a hot backup won't deliver.

    Jared
    On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote:
    wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i
    prefer
    to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his
    way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem
    than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good
    at
    nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but
    when
    that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will
    still
    be needed on occassion.
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 04:33PM >>>
    I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM


    I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been
    using Rman. Just not needed anymore.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM


    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.



    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM


    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR m???m
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

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    ===============================================================
    Ray Stell stellr_at_vt.edu (540) 231-4109 KE4TJC 28^D
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  • Jared.Still_at_radisys.com at Oct 4, 2002 at 5:24 pm
    4) Old habits are hard to break :).
    Ah, there we have it.;)

    Jared

    "Gene Sais"
    Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com
    10/04/2002 07:28 AM
    Please respond to ORACLE-L



    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    cc:
    Subject: Re: Backups

    lol, OK my reasons for occasional cold backups. As a prior sysadmin, I
    prefer single user mode full filesystem backups (i.e. databases shut down)
    prior to any upgrade whether its an application, database, or operating
    system. There are benefits of cold over hot backups (of course this
    assumes you have the luxury to take a database offline):

    Archive logs not needed.

    No need to be concerned which databases are in archivelog mode.

    Easier to backup and restore, even the sysadmin can do it :), i.e. no
    DBA required, no database recovery. OS utilities can be used for
    backup/restore.

    Old habits are hard to break :).

    Gene
    jkstill_at_cybcon.com 10/04/02 01:38AM >>>
    OK, Gene, you asked for it. :)

    The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is
    somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one.

    I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but...

    No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit.;)

    There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup.

    I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying
    you that a hot backup won't deliver.

    Jared
    On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote:
    wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i prefer
    to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his
    way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem
    than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good at
    nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but when
    that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will still
    be needed on occassion.
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 04:33PM >>>
    I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM


    I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been
    using Rman. Just not needed anymore.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM


    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.



    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM


    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

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  • Tim Gorman at Oct 4, 2002 at 9:08 pm
    The one situation where a cold backup can be considered necessary is
    following an OPEN RESETLOGS. If you have a "no data loss" requirement and
    you are in ARCHIVELOG mode, then there is a window following an OPEN
    RESETLOGS where, if the media crashes prior to completing a "hot" backup,
    you could be unrecoverable. File that one under "a bad day"...

    It is not a hard-and-fast requirement however, as there is a fairly narrow
    set of circumstances (available since v7.3.3) where it is possible to
    recover using backups and archivelogs generated prior to an OPEN RESETLOGS
    and then continue the roll-forward using archivelogs generated after the
    RESETLOGS, but there several "gotchas" that can mess that up. It would be a
    gamble to rely on pulling that rabbit out of the hat...

    If you ever find yourself entering the command ALTER DATABASE OPEN RESETLOGS
    on a database that you *really* care about (should be recognized by the same
    shallow-breathing sweaty-palm symptoms you get when you say, "...now, just
    hand the gun to me, slowly..."), then please get an immediate "cold" backup
    before opening the database to users. You may have to argue for it, but be
    sure to leave time for it when folks are asking, "When will the database be
    back?"

    ...other than that situation, there is no advantage of a "cold" backup over
    a "hot" backup; just my $0.02...

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 12:33 AM
    Cold backup is very good because I don't have to monitor database during the
    cold backup, no objects will run out of space and I can enjoy a peaceful time
    without any chance for my beeper to go off. You must admit that a cold backup
    cannot guarantee you that. Unfortunately, my bosses somehow got the
    curious idea
    that they have paid big bucks for all those HP 9000 to work and not to sit
    idle. They
    even calculated a downtime cost per hour for each critical system and they
    are extremely
    reluctant to have them down for extended periods of time (1.1 TB database cannot be
    backed up in minutes, even with Asymmetrix). That is why they bought me a
    toy called
    OPS and why there are policies and procedures about who and how gets
    things in the
    production database. I would love to do cold backup every day from 8 PM
    until 7 AM and
    during Sunday football games but it is not very likely that my wish will
    come true.
    Starlight, starbright, first star I see tonight, I wish I may, I wish I
    might have
    the wish I wish tonight. That is my best chance to get cold backups every day.

    On 2002.10.04 01:38 Jared Still wrote:

    OK, Gene, you asked for it. :)

    The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is
    somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one.

    I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but...

    No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit.;)

    There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup.

    I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying
    you that a hot backup won't deliver.

    Jared
    On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote:
    wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i
    prefer
    to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have
    his
    way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete
    filesystem
    than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep
    good at
    nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but
    when
    that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will
    still
    be needed on occassion.
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 04:33PM >>>
    I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM


    I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've
    been
    using Rman. Just not needed anymore.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM


    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.



    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM


    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

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    --
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  • Tim Gorman at Oct 4, 2002 at 9:08 pm
    gentle correction: oracle6 had "hot" backup capability...

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:48 AM

    Oracle 6 and prior releases required cold backups. Hot backups became
    available in version 7. The trend appears RMAN is the new way! Still
    waiting for Robert Freeman's new book :).

    Gene
    stellr_at_cns.vt.edu 10/04/02 10:03AM >>>
    One of the local dbas said to me recently that Oracle docs
    indicate that cold backups are required. I did a search and
    could not find what he was talking about. Anyone got such a
    reference?
    On Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 09:38:20PM -0800, Jared Still wrote:

    OK, Gene, you asked for it. :)

    The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is
    somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one.

    I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but...

    No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit.;)

    There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup.

    I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying
    you that a hot backup won't deliver.

    Jared
    On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote:
    wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i
    prefer
    to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his
    way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem
    than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep good
    at
    nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but
    when
    that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will
    still
    be needed on occassion.
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 04:33PM >>>
    I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM


    I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been
    using Rman. Just not needed anymore.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM


    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.



    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM


    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR m???m
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

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    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
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    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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  • Jared.Still_at_radisys.com at Oct 4, 2002 at 10:03 pm
    After a RESETLOGS is one I had in mind.

    I understand that you must do cold backups on Oracle Directory Server
    repositories (LDAP)

    Backing up RMAN catalogs cold is not a bad idea either.

    Jared

    "Tim Gorman"
    Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com
    10/04/2002 02:08 PM
    Please respond to ORACLE-L



    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    cc:
    Subject: Re: Backups

    The one situation where a cold backup can be considered necessary is
    following an OPEN RESETLOGS. If you have a "no data loss" requirement and
    you are in ARCHIVELOG mode, then there is a window following an OPEN
    RESETLOGS where, if the media crashes prior to completing a "hot" backup,
    you could be unrecoverable. File that one under "a bad day"...

    It is not a hard-and-fast requirement however, as there is a fairly narrow
    set of circumstances (available since v7.3.3) where it is possible to
    recover using backups and archivelogs generated prior to an OPEN RESETLOGS
    and then continue the roll-forward using archivelogs generated after the
    RESETLOGS, but there several "gotchas" that can mess that up. It would be
    a
    gamble to rely on pulling that rabbit out of the hat...

    If you ever find yourself entering the command ALTER DATABASE OPEN
    RESETLOGS

    on a database that you *really* care about (should be recognized by the
    same
    shallow-breathing sweaty-palm symptoms you get when you say, "...now, just
    hand the gun to me, slowly..."), then please get an immediate "cold"
    backup
    before opening the database to users. You may have to argue for it, but
    be
    sure to leave time for it when folks are asking, "When will the database
    be
    back?"

    ...other than that situation, there is no advantage of a "cold" backup
    over
    a "hot" backup; just my $0.02...

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 12:33 AM
    Cold backup is very good because I don't have to monitor database during the
    cold backup, no objects will run out of space and I can enjoy a peaceful time
    without any chance for my beeper to go off. You must admit that a cold backup
    cannot guarantee you that. Unfortunately, my bosses somehow got the
    curious idea
    that they have paid big bucks for all those HP 9000 to work and not to
    sit
    idle. They
    even calculated a downtime cost per hour for each critical system and
    they
    are extremely
    reluctant to have them down for extended periods of time (1.1 TB
    database
    cannot be
    backed up in minutes, even with Asymmetrix). That is why they bought me
    a
    toy called
    OPS and why there are policies and procedures about who and how gets
    things in the
    production database. I would love to do cold backup every day from 8 PM
    until 7 AM and
    during Sunday football games but it is not very likely that my wish will
    come true.
    Starlight, starbright, first star I see tonight, I wish I may, I wish I
    might have
    the wish I wish tonight. That is my best chance to get cold backups
    every
    day.

    On 2002.10.04 01:38 Jared Still wrote:

    OK, Gene, you asked for it. :)

    The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is
    somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one.

    I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but...

    No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit.;)

    There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup.

    I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying
    you that a hot backup won't deliver.

    Jared
    On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote:
    wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i
    prefer
    to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have
    his
    way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete
    filesystem
    than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep
    good at
    nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but
    when
    that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will
    still
    be needed on occassion.
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 04:33PM >>>
    I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM


    I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've
    been
    using Rman. Just not needed anymore.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup
    procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I
    use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM


    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other
    utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.



    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery
    that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM


    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when
    only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the
    data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know
    for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability
    of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site,
    and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a
    daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

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    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
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  • Gene Sais at Oct 5, 2002 at 12:38 am
    I stand corrected. Guess I shouldn't rely on memory, it keeps failing on those DBA sessions :) Just don't remember anyone doing hot backups during Oracle 6.

    Thanks,
    Gene

    PS. (DBA=DrinkBeerAgain)
    Tim_at_SageLogix.com 10/04/02 16:23 PM >>>
    gentle correction: oracle6 had "hot" backup capability...

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:48 AM

    Oracle 6 and prior releases required cold backups. Hot backups became
    available in version 7. The trend appears RMAN is the new way! Still
    waiting for Robert Freeman's new book :).

    Gene
    stellr_at_cns.vt.edu 10/04/02 10:03AM >>>
    One of the local dbas said to me recently that Oracle docs
    indicate that cold backups are required. I did a search and
    could not find what he was talking about. Anyone got such a
    reference?
    On Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 09:38:20PM -0800, Jared Still wrote:

    OK, Gene, you asked for it. :)

    The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is
    somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one.

    I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but...

    No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit.;)

    There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup.

    I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying
    you that a hot backup won't deliver.

    Jared
    On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote:
    wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i
    prefer
    to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his
    way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem
    than a corrupted database. cold backups ae a good thing. i sleep good
    at
    nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but
    when
    that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will
    still
    be needed on occassion.
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 04:33PM >>>
    I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM


    I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been
    using Rman. Just not needed anymore.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM


    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.



    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed wen you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM


    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR m???m
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
    INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com

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    Author: Gene Sais
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  • Gene Sais at Oct 5, 2002 at 12:38 am
    I stand corrected. Guess I shouldn't rely on memory, it keeps failing on those DBA sessions :) Just don't remember anyone doing hot backups during Oracle 6.

    Thanks,
    Gene

    PS. (DBA=DrinkBeerAgain)
    Tim_at_SageLogix.com 10/04/02 16:23 PM >>>
    gentle correction: oracle6 had "hot" backup capability...

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:48 AM

    Oracle 6 and prior releases required cold backups. Hot backups became
    available in version 7. The trend appears RMAN is the new way! Still
    waiting for Robert Freeman's new book :).

    Gene
    stellr_at_cns.vt.edu 10/04/02 10:03AM >>>
    One of the local dbas said to me recently that Oracle docs
    indicate that cold backups are required. I did a search and
    could not find what he was talking about. Anyone got such a
    reference?
    On Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 09:38:20PM -0800, Jared Still wrote:

    OK, Gene, you asked for it. :)

    The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is
    somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one.

    I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but...

    No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit.;)

    There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup.

    I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying
    you that a hot backup won't deliver.

    Jared
    On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote:
    wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i
    prefer
    to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have his
    way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete filesystem
    than a corrupted database. cold backups ae a good thing. i sleep good
    at
    nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but
    when
    that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will
    still
    be needed on occassion.
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 04:33PM >>>
    I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM


    I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've been
    using Rman. Just not needed anymore.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM


    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.



    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed wen you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM


    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR m???m
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

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  • Ruth Gramolini at Oct 7, 2002 at 2:13 pm
    Tim, et.al,

    We use rman on 8.0.6.3 databases. One of our duvelopers was trying to
    delete records from a table and her query deleted everything from the
    table. This caused the application to fail and a point-in_time recovery was
    nessessary. I was given a time of 11:00AM. I had recovered the database
    until 11:00AM and before opening the database with resetlogs, I asked if the
    time was correct. After several minutes of discussion with all concerned,
    it was decided that actually we needed to recovery until 9:00AM. I changed
    the until time in the restore script, restored the database until 9:00AM and
    recovered it and opened it resetlogs. I had no problem with this.

    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 5:08 PM

    The one situation where a cold backup can be considered necessary is
    following an OPEN RESETLOGS. If you have a "no data loss" requirement and
    you are in ARCHIVELOG mode, then there is a window following an OPEN
    RESETLOGS where, if the media crashes prior to completing a "hot" backup,
    you could be unrecoverable. File that one under "a bad day"...

    It is not a hard-and-fast requirement however, as there is a fairly narrow
    set of circumstances (available since v7.3.3) where it is possible to
    recover using backups and archivelogs generated prior to an OPEN RESETLOGS
    and then continue the roll-forward using archivelogs generated after the
    RESETLOGS, but there several "gotchas" that can mess that up. It would be a
    gamble to rely on pulling that rabbit out of the hat...

    If you ever find yourself entering the command ALTER DATABASE OPEN RESETLOGS
    on a database that you *really* care about (should be recognized by the same
    shallow-breathing sweaty-palm symptoms you get when you say, "...now, just
    hand the gun to me, slowly..."), then please get an immediate "cold" backup
    before opening the database to users. You may have to argue for it, but be
    sure to leave time for it when folks are asking, "When will the database be
    back?"

    ...other than that situation, there is no advantage of a "cold" backup over
    a "hot" backup; just my $0.02...

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 12:33 AM
    Cold backup is very good because I don't have to monitor database during the
    cold backup, no objects will run out of space and I can enjoy a peaceful time
    without any chance for my beeper to go off. You must admit that a cold backup
    cannot guarantee you that. Unfortunately, my bosses somehow got the
    curious idea
    that they have paid big bucks for all those HP 9000 to work and not to sit
    idle. They
    even calculated a downtime cost per hour for each critical system and they
    are extremely
    reluctant to have them down for extended periods of time (1.1 TB database cannot be
    backed up in minutes, even with Asymmetrix). That is why they bought me a
    toy called
    OPS and why there are policies and procedures about who and how gets
    things in the
    production database. I would love to do cold backup every day from 8 PM
    until 7 AM and
    during Sunday football games but it is not very likely that my wish will
    come true.
    Starlight, starbright, first star I see tonight, I wish I may, I wish I
    might have
    the wish I wish tonight. That is my best chance to get cold backups every day.

    On 2002.10.04 01:38 Jared Still wrote:

    OK, Gene, you asked for it. :)

    The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is
    somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one.

    I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but...

    No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit.;)

    There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup.

    I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying
    you that a hot backup won't deliver.

    Jared
    On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote:
    wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i
    prefer
    to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have
    his
    way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete
    filesystem
    than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep
    good at
    nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox. but
    when
    that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will
    still
    be needed on occassion.
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 04:33PM >>>
    I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM


    I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've
    been
    using Rman. Just not needed anymore.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM


    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.



    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM


    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

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    Author: Ruth Gramolini
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  • Tim Gorman at Oct 7, 2002 at 8:18 pm
    I didn't say that you would have a problem during OPEN RESETLOGS. A problem
    might occur after the OPEN RESETLOGS if you did not grab an immediate "cold"
    backup...

    If you just open the database to end-users and transactions immediately
    after the OPEN RESETLOGS, then you have a period when it would be
    unrecoverable should another media failure or corruption occur before a full
    backup can be taken. That is, before you can complete a full backup of the
    database (either "hot" or "cold"), all of the archivelogs generated and
    saved are *useless*. After all, what good is an archivelog without a valid
    restored backup to overlay?

    That is the reason for the recommendation to get a "cold" backup after an
    OPEN RESETLOGS; so that you can be absolutely certain that any transaction
    committed afterwards can be recovered in the event of media failure...

    ---

    There is a certain set of circumstances where the sun, the moon, and the
    stars align where you can restore from backups taken *prior* to the OPEN
    RESETLOGS and roll forward archivelogs generated after the backup through
    the OPEN RESETLOGS to the point-in-time of failure, but the requirements
    include:

    * database must be version 7.3.3 or higher, so you can save the SCN of
    the OPEN RESETLOGS logged to the "alert.log" file
    * must have the SCN of the OPEN RESETLOGS available
    * the backup taken prior to the resetlogs (used in the restore) must
    have been a "hot" backup
    * the database instance must not have been shutdown between that "hot"
    backup and the events leading to the OPEN RESETLOGS

    If any one of these conditions is false, then grabbing a "cold" backup after
    an OPEN RESETLOGS is the only way to guarantee that all transactions
    committed after the OPEN RESETLOGS can be recovered if media failure occurs
    again...

    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 8:13 AM
    Tim, et.al,

    We use rman on 8.0.6.3 databases. One of our duvelopers was trying to
    delete records from a table and her query deleted everything from the
    table. This caused the application to fail and a point-in_time recovery was
    nessessary. I was given a time of 11:00AM. I had recovered the database
    until 11:00AM and before opening the database with resetlogs, I asked if the
    time was correct. After several minutes of discussion with all concerned,
    it was decided that actually we needed to recovery until 9:00AM. I changed
    the until time in the restore script, restored the database until 9:00AM and
    recovered it and opened it resetlogs. I had no problem with this.

    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 5:08 PM


    The one situation where a cold backup can be considered necessary is
    following an OPEN RESETLOGS. If you have a "no data loss" requirement and
    you are in ARCHIVELOG mode, then there is a window following an OPEN
    RESETLOGS where, if the media crashes prior to completing a "hot" backup,
    you could be unrecoverable. File that one under "a bad day"...

    It is not a hard-and-fast requirement however, as there is a fairly narrow
    set of circumstances (available since v7.3.3) where it is possible to
    recover using backups and archivelogs generated prior to an OPEN RESETLOGS
    and then continue the roll-forward using archivelogs generated after the
    RESETLOGS, but there several "gotchas" that can mess that up. It would be a
    gamble to rely on pulling that rabbit out of the hat...

    If you ever find yourself entering the command ALTER DATABASE OPEN RESETLOGS
    on a database that you *really* care about (should be recognized by the same
    shallow-breathing sweaty-palm symptoms you get when you say, "...now, just
    hand the gun to me, slowly..."), then please get an immediate "cold" backup
    before opening the database to users. You may have to argue for it, but be
    sure to leave time for it when folks are asking, "When will the database be
    back?"

    ..other than that situation, there is no advantage of a "cold" backup over
    a "hot" backup; just my $0.02...

    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 12:33 AM

    Cold backup is very good because I don't have to monitor database during the
    cold backup, no objects will run out of space and I can enjoy a peaceful time
    without any chance for my beeper to go off. You must admit that a cold backup
    cannot guarantee you that. Unfortunately, my bosses somehow got the
    curious idea
    that they have paid big bucks for all those HP 9000 to work and not to
    sit
    idle. They
    even calculated a downtime cost per hour for each critical system and
    they
    are extremely
    reluctant to have them down for extended periods of time (1.1 TB
    database
    cannot be
    backed up in minutes, even with Asymmetrix). That is why they bought me
    a
    toy called
    OPS and why there are policies and procedures about who and how gets
    things in the
    production database. I would love to do cold backup every day from 8 PM
    until 7 AM and
    during Sunday football games but it is not very likely that my wish will
    come true.
    Starlight, starbright, first star I see tonight, I wish I may, I wish I
    might have
    the wish I wish tonight. That is my best chance to get cold backups
    every
    day.

    On 2002.10.04 01:38 Jared Still wrote:

    OK, Gene, you asked for it. :)

    The context of your message suggests that a hot backup is
    somehow more likely to be corrupted than a cold one.

    I hate to resurrect an old flame war, but...

    No, I take it back. I don't hate it a bit.;)

    There aren't many occasions that call for a cold backup.

    I'm just curious what you believe a cold backup is buying
    you that a hot backup won't deliver.

    Jared
    On Thursday 03 October 2002 14:54, Gene Sais wrote:
    wow, never a cold backup for any os,oracle, application upgrades? i
    prefer
    to shutdown everything, backup the filesystems, let the vendor have
    his
    way. if he screws up, its much easier to restore a complete
    filesystem
    than a corrupted database. cold backups are a good thing. i sleep
    good at
    nite :) soon, rman will be another backup method in my toolbox.
    but
    when
    that happens, i can see hot backups going away but cold backups will
    still
    be needed on occassion.
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 04:33PM >>>
    I don't do them either, 4.5 years here. Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:17 PM


    I haven't done nor recommended a cold backup in 3 years since I've
    been
    using Rman. Just not needed anymore.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:14 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    I still prefer cold backups when performing full OS backups.
    RROGERS_at_galottery.org 10/03/02 02:28PM >>>
    Lest we not forget the archivelogs also during this backup
    procedure.
    Ron
    rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us 10/03/02 01:53PM >>>
    I forgot about alter tablespace begin backup; etc. I am spoiled, I
    use
    rman
    to do online backups. No problem with recovery!
    Ruth
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM


    This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode,
    backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
    is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other
    utility),
    come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

    John P Weatherman
    Database Administrator
    Replacements Ltd.



    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery
    that
    database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you
    won't be
    able to recover.

    Just a thot,
    Ruth

    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM


    Robyn,
    We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
    fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when
    only
    a
    small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the
    data
    on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
    function
    is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know
    for
    sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability
    of
    the dd tape.
    Other users will know about the transportability issues.
    Ron
    ROR mª¿ªm
    Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
    Hello,

    I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site,
    and
    have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a
    separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
    moves the files to tape.

    Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
    provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file
    system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a
    ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
    recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a
    daily
    backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

    Robyn

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