FAQ
Hi gurus...

I friend newly bought a laptop with windows XP. He wants to install oracle
8i on it.

Is it possible to install oracle 8i in XP?. Is there any patch i need apply.

Thanks.

Nirmal.
--
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  • Jay at Jul 27, 2002 at 3:24 pm
    It is possible although it is not supported.

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 8:03 AM
    Hi gurus...

    I friend newly bought a laptop with windows XP. He wants to install oracle
    8i on it.

    Is it possible to install oracle 8i in XP?. Is there any patch i need apply.
    Thanks.

    Nirmal.
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Nirmal Kumar Muthu Kumaran
    INET: NIRMALK_at_qtel.com.qa

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    Author: Jay
    INET: fish_dba_at_hotmail.com

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  • Nirmal Kumar Muthu Kumaran at Jul 27, 2002 at 4:08 pm
    Can you pls any one guide me, how to succeed on this.

    Rgds,
    Nirmal.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 6:24 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    It is possible although it is not supported.

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 8:03 AM
    Hi gurus...

    I friend newly bought a laptop with windows XP. He wants to install oracle
    8i on it.

    Is it possible to install oracle 8i in XP?. Is there any patch i need apply.
    Thanks.

    Nirmal.
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Nirmal Kumar Muthu Kumaran
    INET: NIRMALK_at_qtel.com.qa

    Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Jay
    INET: fish_dba_at_hotmail.com

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    --
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    --
    Author: Nirmal Kumar Muthu Kumaran
    INET: NIRMALK_at_qtel.com.qa

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  • Eric D. Pierce at Jul 27, 2002 at 6:49 pm
    JUST SETUP A DUAL BOOT OF WINDOWS 2000 PRO AND WINDOWS XP PRO

    AND MAKE YOUR LIFE EASIER!!!

    ---

    Remember, "Windows .NET Server 2003" (the precise term used by
    Bill Gates recently) is the next evolution of the kind of
    production platform that Oracle server needs to run on,

    --> NOT XP

    (which is a desktop platform)!!!

    XP is the desktop "Whistler", whereas Windows .NET Server 2003
    is the server version of "Whistler".

    Oracle will probably have the same problem with "Longhorn",
    which will be the next evolutionary step in the desktop
    progression after "XP".

    ---

    Anyways, according to one report, to make "pre-9i" ORacle
    software work on XP, copy everything from the install CD to
    hard disk, remove the "read only" attribute, and run the
    installer from there.

    ???

    Or use Oracle db v 9.0 or 9.1 ? (which are certified on
    XP *PRO*)

    (Or get a cheap test box, and install Windows 2000 Pro!)

    According to a developer product manager guy at Oracle_at_UK, the
    reason that XP is not currently supported for db 8i (or more
    precisely, for Patch11 of the Developer stuff) is that there
    are some concerns about compatibility of "required support
    files" on XP.

    ---excerpt---

    from metalink.oracle.com :
    Oracle8i
    Client Release Notes

    Release 3 (8.1.7.0.0) for Windows XP

    June 2002

    Part No. A97675-01

    These Release Notes discuss the steps to install Oracle8i client
    components on Windows XP. These Release Notes supplement Oracle8i
    Release Notes for Windows and component readme files that were
    distributed with the Oracle8i release 3 (8.1.7.0.0) for Windows
    software.

    This document contains the following topics:

    Oracle Components Certified on Windows XP

    Required Oracle8i Installation Components

    Additional Oracle8i Installation Components

    Installation Tasks

    Deinstallation Steps

    Documentation Accessibility

    Oracle Components Certified on Windows XP
    Only the client components from the 8.1.7.3.0 patch set for Oracle8i
    Server for Windows are certified on the 32-bit version of Windows XP
    Professional Edition. Table 1 lists these client components. Releases
    prior to the 8.1.7.3.0 patch set for Oracle8i Server for Windows are
    not certified on Windows XP.
    ...

    ---end---

    On 27 Jul 2002 at 8:08, Nirmal Kumar Muthu Kumaran wrote:

    Date sent: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 08:08:24 -0800

    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Can you pls any one guide me, how to succeed on this.

    Rgds,
    Nirmal.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 6:24 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    It is possible although it is not supported.

    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 8:03 AM

    Hi gurus...

    I friend newly bought a laptop with windows XP. He wants to install oracle
    8i on it.

    Is it possible to install oracle 8i in XP?. Is there any patch i need
    apply.
    ...

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Eric D. Pierce
    INET: eric_d_pierce_at_pacbell.net

    Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
  • Mladen Gogala at Jul 27, 2002 at 7:48 pm

    On 2002.07.27 14:49 Eric D. Pierce wrote:

    JUST SETUP A DUAL BOOT OF WINDOWS 2000 PRO AND WINDOWS XP PRO
    AND MAKE YOUR LIFE EASIER!!!
    And then reformat all your disks, install Red Hat 7.3 and make your life
    still easier. No dual boot required. Keep your system Micros*t free.
    ---

    Remember, "Windows .NET Server 2003" (the precise term used by
    Bill Gates recently) is the next evolution of the kind of
    production platform that Oracle server needs to run on,
    Yes. The most significant advance is that the blue screen of death will
    be replaced by the green one, to signify Microsoft's concerns for our
    environment. Microsoft is famous for the stability of its products,
    particularly
    the Exchange. Microsoft is really something that you want your
    production
    database to be running on. Does the ".net" part mean that a database
    running
    on a MS sever will be vulnerable to any damned virus there is on the
    (.)net?
    --> NOT XP
    (which is a desktop platform)!!!
    Not on my desk!
    XP is the desktop "Whistler", whereas Windows .NET Server 2003
    is the server version of "Whistler".

    Oracle will probably have the same problem with "Longhorn",
    which will be the next evolutionary step in the desktop
    Since when is return to the dinosaurs called "evolution"?
    progression after "XP".
    Donward progression, that is. Just press Ctrl-Alt-Del.

    --
    Mladen Gogala
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Mladen Gogala
    INET: mgogala_at_adelphia.net

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  • Eric D. Pierce at Jul 27, 2002 at 11:58 pm
    Silly masturbatory bigotry. I suppose you think it is a good
    thing to drive all the NT people to using SQL Server by acting
    like a typical snobby *sshole Unix DBA?

    If the guys asking the question wanted to learn Linsux they
    would have. Linsux desktop is still sucky. There are a lot of
    stable production windows server systems. Not as good Unix,
    but it doesn't have to be.

    Here is the main problem with MS: in order to sell product
    (new operating systems), they have to sell it on new systems.
    So in order to get people to buy new systems, they have to add
    bloat (er... "features").

    .NET is full of bloat (Palladium, etc.), but if MS' marketing
    people succeed in convincing the market that .NET is easier
    than java and open source, they will "win".

    regards,
    ep
    On 27 Jul 2002 at 11:48, Mladen Gogala wrote:

    On 2002.07.27 14:49 Eric D. Pierce wrote:
    JUST SETUP A DUAL BOOT OF WINDOWS 2000 PRO AND WINDOWS XP PRO
    AND MAKE YOUR LIFE EASIER!!!

    And then reformat all your disks, install Red Hat 7.3 and make your life
    still easier. No dual boot required. Keep your system Micros*t free.
    ---

    Remember, "Windows .NET Server 2003" (the precise term used by
    Bill Gates recently) is the next evolution of the kind of
    production platform that Oracle server needs to run on,

    Yes. The most significant advance is that the blue screen of death will
    be replaced by the green one, to signify Microsoft's concerns for our
    environment. Microsoft is famous for the stability of its products,
    particularly
    the Exchange. Microsoft is really something that you want your
    production
    database to be running on. Does the ".net" part mean that a database
    running
    on a MS sever will be vulnerable to any damned virus there is on the
    (.)net?


    --> NOT XP
    (which is a desktop platform)!!!

    Not on my desk!
    XP is the desktop "Whistler", whereas Windows .NET Server 2003
    is the server version of "Whistler".

    Oracle will probably have the same problem with "Longhorn",
    which will be the next evolutionary step in the desktop

    Since when is return to the dinosaurs called "evolution"?
    progression after "XP".

    Donward progression, that is. Just press Ctrl-Alt-Del.

    --
    Mladen Gogala
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Mladen Gogala
    INET: mgogala_at_adelphia.net

    Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
    San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Eric D. Pierce
    INET: eric_d_pierce_at_pacbell.net

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  • Mladen Gogala at Jul 28, 2002 at 1:03 am

    On 2002.07.27 19:58 Eric D. Pierce wrote:
    Silly masturbatory bigotry. I suppose you think it is a good
    thing to drive all the NT people to using SQL Server by acting
    like a typical snobby *sshole Unix DBA?
    If someone wants to use SQL*Server, he'll do it. Oracle is too big and
    too
    expensive for a small corner shop. MySQL and PostGres are even greater
    danger to both of them. Incidentally, I expect Oracle Corp. to bring
    prices
    down soon. Very soon. As for the "snobby *sshole Unix DBA", yes, I am a
    Unix
    guy, I used to be a VMS guy, but Micros*t operating systems simply do
    not satisfy
    my stability and adaptability criteria. Believe it or not, it's the
    pricing that
    drives business decision, not a preference toward some specially
    likable OS. If Oracle
    doesn't bring prices down, people will be using SQL*Server on NT, one
    way or another.
    If the guys asking the question wanted to learn Linsux they
    would have.
    Well, if you want an operating systems that any idiot can use, than
    idiots
    will use it. That particularly applies to Windoze. The guys should know
    that, whoever the guys might be.
    Linsux desktop is still sucky.
    It is? Depends on what you mean by "sucky". That doesn't sound like a
    particularly well
    defined criteria. I like my home environment (SuSE 8.0) far better then
    my office environment
    (Windoze 2000). I, for one, think that windoze sucks.
    There are a lot of
    stable production windows server systems. Not as good Unix,
    but it doesn't have to be.
    Oh, there are? I've also heard that legend, but after having an
    Exchange server down
    last week for almost a day, I stopped believing it. Moreover, for the
    database server,
    it DOES HAVE to be as good and as stable as possible. I can live with
    rebooting
    a desktop machine twice a day, but if that happens to the database
    server, I'm in
    trouble. That is why my company is using 4-way HP 9000/N cluster. NT
    simply doesn't
    cut it.
    Here is the main problem with MS: in order to sell product
    (new operating systems), they have to sell it on new systems.
    So in order to get people to buy new systems, they have to add
    bloat (er... "features").

    .NET is full of bloat (Palladium, etc.), but if MS' marketing
    people succeed in convincing the market that .NET is easier
    than java and open source, they will "win".
    Microsoft is, legally, a monopolly, which still has to be regulated.
    The legal remedies are still in the process. Winning over Java and open
    source in the usual Microsoft way will probably not be possible. The
    "MS way"
    means strongarming PC dealers and threatenning clients to revoke
    licenses if
    they deploy a "hostile OS".

    --
    Mladen Gogala
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Mladen Gogala
    INET: mgogala_at_adelphia.net

    Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
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  • Jay at Jul 28, 2002 at 4:43 am
    Three questions:

    1) XP Home or Pro (Would not recommend installing anything on Home)
    2) Intel P4? (If so look on metalink for some information about this issue)
    3) Which version of 8i (Hopefully 8.1.7.4)

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 12:08 PM
    Can you pls any one guide me, how to succeed on this.

    Rgds,
    Nirmal.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 6:24 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    It is possible although it is not supported.

    ----- Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 8:03 AM

    Hi gurus...

    I friend newly bought a laptop with windows XP. He wants to install
    oracle
    8i on it.

    Is it possible to install oracle 8i in XP?. Is there any patch i need apply.
    Thanks.

    Nirmal.
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Nirmal Kumar Muthu Kumaran
    INET: NIRMALK_at_qtel.com.qa

    Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
    San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
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    (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Jay
    INET: fish_dba_at_hotmail.com

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    --
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    --
    Author: Nirmal Kumar Muthu Kumaran
    INET: NIRMALK_at_qtel.com.qa

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    --
    Author: Jay
    INET: fish_dba_at_hotmail.com

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  • Eric D. Pierce at Jul 28, 2002 at 6:03 pm

    On 27 Jul 2002 at 17:03, Mladen Gogala wrote:
    On 2002.07.27 19:58 Eric D. Pierce wrote:
    Silly masturbatory bigotry. I suppose you think it is a good
    thing to drive all the NT people to using SQL Server by acting
    like a typical snobby *sshole Unix DBA?
    If someone wants to use SQL*Server, he'll do it. Oracle is too big and
    too
    expensive for a small corner shop. MySQL and PostGres are even greater
    danger to both of them. Incidentally, I expect Oracle Corp. to bring
    prices
    down soon. Very soon.
    So we should expect a whole new bunch of "newbee" NT Oracle
    DBAs to join the list? :)

    haaa haaaaa haaaaaaaaaaa
    As for the "snobby *sshole Unix DBA", yes, I am a
    Unix
    guy, I used to be a VMS guy, but Micros*t operating systems simply do
    not satisfy
    my stability and adaptability criteria.
    So what? Are you saying that your experience eclipses
    everything that goes on in the market?

    I have nothing against deep-skill-set people and the
    nbecessary role they play as long as they don't try to
    "colonize" every other aspect of the industry with elitist
    b*llsh*t attitudes.
    Believe it or not, it's the
    pricing that
    drives business decision, not a preference toward some specially
    likable OS. If Oracle
    doesn't bring prices down, people will be using SQL*Server on NT, one
    way or another.
    I would say it is functionality and price.
    If the guys asking the question wanted to learn Linsux they
    would have.
    Well, if you want an operating systems that any idiot can use, than
    idiots
    will use it. That particularly applies to Windoze.
    So, extending your statement to its logical conclusion, only
    "experts" should have PCs, and the mass market for computers
    was a social aberration?

    The reason MS established market domination was not just
    because of monopolistic practices, there was an existing
    vacuum on the low end of the market that MS learned to exploit
    by creating mass market products that the high-skill-set
    elitists/purists weren't inclined towards.
    The guys should know
    that, whoever the guys might be.
    "They guys" are the ones asking the question about
    certification of oracle db 8.1.7 on XP.

    As far as I know, there is no evidence that they either
    "should", or "do" know that.
    Linsux desktop is still sucky.
    It is? Depends on what you mean by "sucky". That doesn't sound like a
    particularly well
    defined criteria. I like my home environment (SuSE 8.0) far better then
    my office environment
    (Windoze 2000).
    That proves nothing. Just because a high-skill-set nuix bigot,
    obviously steeped in the arcana of "systems" is able to get a
    working desktop Linsux environment setup says NOTHING about
    the mass market.

    I have abundant evidence that even techies that have attempted
    to run Linsux desktop because the that MS find it too much of
    a real pain in the *ss after a while, and go back to MS in
    order to get work done.
    I, for one, think that windoze sucks.
    Obviously, but so what?
    There are a lot of
    stable production windows server systems. Not as good Unix,
    but it doesn't have to be.
    Oh, there are?
    Read the book on Oracle9i on Windows 2000 by three Oracle
    employees (one of whom was on the list a while ago and said
    basically the same things I am).

    http://mhorder.com/oracle9i/0072194626.html
    I've also heard that legend, but after having an
    Exchange server down
    last week for almost a day, I stopped believing it.
    ??? Does that mean you don't know how to run Exchange, or that
    Exchange sucks, or both?

    If the latter, how does Exchange (AKA SQL Server) being sucky
    automatically mean that all of NT is sucky???
    Moreover, for the
    database server,
    it DOES HAVE to be as good and as stable as >possible.
    Reliability is on a continuum. There are certainly instances
    of mainframes and unix being set up in a flaky, unreliable
    manner by people that lack expertise. Just because
    maingrame/unix is being used doesn't magically confer
    perfection on a system and guarantee 100% stability.

    Now, if some guy wants to install Oracle on a laptop for
    (e.g.) testing/training purposes, I would suggest that it is
    utter f*ing insanity to say that they have absolutely no
    chance of doing it in a "stable" enough manner.
    I can live with
    rebooting
    a desktop machine twice a day, but if that happens to the database
    server, I'm in
    trouble.
    What are you basing your comments on? Can someone ask Oracle
    if the large number of production Oracle/NT systems that exist
    require daily rebooting?

    Your statement is ridiculous.
    That is why my company is using 4-way HP 9000/N cluster. NT
    simply doesn't
    cut it.
    Again: SO WHAT?

    In case the though never occurred to you, you and your company
    are not the center of the universe,and the end of all human
    possibility or experience.
    Here is the main problem with MS: in order to sell product
    (new operating systems), they have to sell it on new systems.
    So in order to get people to buy new systems, they have to add
    bloat (er... "features").

    .NET is full of bloat (Palladium, etc.), but if MS' marketing
    people succeed in convincing the market that .NET is easier
    than java and open source, they will "win".
    Microsoft is, legally, a monopolly, which still has to be regulated.
    Of course, but the ultimate "demonopolization" of MS probably
    ultimately can't be done (at least in the short run) without
    doing FAR more damage to society and the market than it would
    be worth.

    Of course to the real, pure Unix bigot, society and markets
    don't matter, rather, MS must be defeated for the "jihad" of
    elitist, purist technomania to attain its "triumph".
    The legal remedies are still in the process. Winning over Java and open
    source in the usual Microsoft way will probably not be possible. The
    "MS way"
    means strongarming PC dealers and threatenning clients to revoke
    licenses if
    they deploy a "hostile OS".
    Given the anti-corporate mentality that is developing, I would
    doubt that MS will ever be able to use those tactics as openly
    as they used to.

    And they probably don't have to. All they have to do is
    brainwash mass market purchasers into thinking that all the
    latest bells and whistles are needed.

    regards,
    ep

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Eric D. Pierce
    INET: eric_d_pierce_at_pacbell.net

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  • Mladen Gogala at Jul 28, 2002 at 8:53 pm

    On 2002.07.28 14:03 Eric D. Pierce wrote:
    On 27 Jul 2002 at 17:03, Mladen Gogala wrote:
    On 2002.07.27 19:58 Eric D. Pierce wrote:
    Silly masturbatory bigotry. I suppose you think it is a good
    thing to drive all the NT people to using SQL Server by acting
    like a typical snobby *sshole Unix DBA?
    If someone wants to use SQL*Server, he'll do it. Oracle is too big and
    too
    expensive for a small corner shop. MySQL and PostGres are even greater
    danger to both of them. Incidentally, I expect Oracle Corp. to bring
    prices
    down soon. Very soon.
    So we should expect a whole new bunch of "newbee" NT Oracle
    DBAs to join the list? :)

    haaa haaaaa haaaaaaaaaaa
    Hey, you joined and nobody was objecting.
    As for the "snobby *sshole Unix DBA", yes, I am a
    Unix
    guy, I used to be a VMS guy, but Micros*t operating systems simply do
    not satisfy
    my stability and adaptability criteria.
    So what? Are you saying that your experience eclipses
    everything that goes on in the market?
    Where did you derive that from?
    I have nothing against deep-skill-set people and the
    nbecessary role they play as long as they don't try to
    "colonize" every other aspect of the industry with elitist
    b*llsh*t attitudes.

    Believe it or not, it's the
    pricing that
    drives business decision, not a preference toward some specially
    likable OS. If Oracle
    doesn't bring prices down, people will be using SQL*Server on NT, one
    way or another.
    I would say it is functionality and price.

    If the guys asking the question wanted to learn Linsux they
    would have.
    Well, if you want an operating systems that any idiot can use, than
    idiots
    will use it. That particularly applies to Windoze.
    So, extending your statement to its logical conclusion, only
    "experts" should have PCs, and the mass market for computers
    was a social aberration?
    Nope. It's not a social aberration. Only, people shouldn't be running
    production
    databases on NT and related systems. Mass market is OK, Windoze is good
    for editing,
    printing and playing tetris, but it is definitely not for databases.
    The reason MS established market domination was not just
    because of monopolistic practices, there was an existing
    vacuum on the low end of the market that MS learned to exploit
    by creating mass market products that the high-skill-set
    elitists/purists weren't inclined towards.
    On the other hand, we have pimply faced idiots who think that everything
    should be done on NT because they don't know anything else. I've been
    blessed with the several opportunities to interview a candidate with
    MSCE,OCP

    and no unix experience for a DBA position, and I'm fully aware of
    their "capabilities". Windoze is not for databases, regardless of what
    you think
    about the world of adults (high-skill-set elitists/purists)

    This debate is getting increasingly personal and that is why I am going
    to end
    it right now. I tried avoiding a personal conflict in my first reply,
    but you
    insisted. As I have nothing to gain from the squabble, I'm out of here.

    --
    Mladen Gogala
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Mladen Gogala
    INET: mgogala_at_adelphia.net

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  • Michael Kline at Jul 29, 2002 at 3:33 am

    There are a lot of
    stable production windows server systems. Not as good Unix,
    but it doesn't have to be.
    Oh, there are? I've also heard that legend, but after having an
    Exchange server down
    last week for almost a day, I stopped believing it. Moreover, for the
    database server,
    it DOES HAVE to be as good and as stable as possible. I can live with
    rebooting
    a desktop machine twice a day, but if that happens to the database
    server, I'm in
    trouble. That is why my company is using 4-way HP 9000/N cluster. NT
    simply doesn't
    cut it.
    I've had several Windows NT and 2000 servers that will run Oracle for
    months, but Linux is quite good as well.

    I remember once while testing software, I had to "busy" a version 8
    database, then use the software(DB Scope) to look over the database
    and tell me what was wrong. I got it busy inserting records, dropping
    records, doing full table scans in a script that just kept repeating
    itself.

    Well a few months later I had a revision to the software and had to look
    at a Version 8 database again... I found the I/O in the billions and
    couldn't figure out why.

    The Linux box had been running at 99% CPU running my script for 2-3 months
    doing that test on Oracle 8, running our backup DNS, and backup Email
    server and no one even knew the box was that busy... Yet, our super
    powerful Exchange Server was down usually 1-2 times a week and was probably
    3-5 times faster with twin processors.

    Usually when management sees a Windows database server and tries to
    "add" something to it, that's when you really start having problems.
    Keep it "plain" and it will do much better.

    I just found 99% cpu for 3 months very impressive.

    Maks.

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Michael Kline
    INET: mkline1_at_comcast.net

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  • Eric D. Pierce at Jul 29, 2002 at 5:03 am
    Absurd. Your intention from
    the beginning was to be a snobby
    jerk.

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/102gwtnf.asp

    Among
    the Bourgeoisophobes

    Why
    the Europeans and Arabs, each in their own way, hate
    America
    and Israel.

    by
    David Brooks

    04/15/2002,
    Volume 007, Issue 30

    AROUND
    1830, a group of French artists and intellectuals
    looked
    around and noticed that people who were their
    spiritual
    inferiors were running the world. Suddenly a
    large
    crowd of merchants, managers, and traders were
    making
    lots of money, living in the big houses, and
    holding
    the key posts. They had none of the high style
    of
    the aristocracy, or even the earthy integrity of the
    peasants.
    Instead, they were gross. They were vulgar
    materialists,
    shallow conformists, and self-absorbed
    philistines,
    who half the time failed even to
    acknowledge
    their moral and spiritual inferiority
    to
    the artists and intellectuals. What's more, it was
    their
    very mediocrity that accounted for their success.
    Through
    some screw-up in the great scheme of the
    universe,
    their narrow-minded greed had brought them
    vast
    wealth, unstoppable power, and growing social
    prestige.

    Naturally,
    the artists and intellectuals were outraged.
    Hatred
    of the bourgeoisie became the official emotion of
    the
    French intelligentsia. Stendhal said traders and
    merchants
    made him want to "weep and vomit at the same
    time."
    Flaubert thought they were "plodding and
    avaricious."
    Hatred of the bourgeoisie, he wrote, "is
    the
    beginning of all virtue." He signed his letters
    "Bourgeoisophobus"
    to show how much he despised "stupid
    grocers
    and their ilk."

    Of
    all the great creeds of the 19th century, pretty much
    the
    only one still thriving is this one,
    bourgeoisophobia.
    Marxism is dead. Freudianism is dead.
    Social
    Darwinism is dead, along with all those theories
    about
    racial purity that grew up around it. But the
    emotions
    and reactions that Flaubert, Stendhal, and all
    the
    others articulated in the 1830s are still with us,
    bigger
    than ever. In fact, bourgeoisophobia, which has
    flowered
    variously and spread to places as diverse as
    Baghdad,
    Ramallah, and Beijing, is the major reactionary
    creed
    of our age.

    This
    is because today, in much of the world's eyes, two
    peoples--the
    Americans and the Jews--have emerged as the
    great
    exemplars of undeserved success. Americans and
    Israelis,
    in this view, are the money-mad molochs
    of
    the earth, the vulgarizers of morals, corrupters of
    culture,
    and proselytizers of idolatrous values. These
    two
    nations, it is said, practice conquest capitalism,
    overrunning
    poorer nations and exploiting weaker
    neighbors
    in their endless desire for more and more.
    These
    two peoples, the Americans and the Jews, in the
    view
    of the bourgeoisophobes, thrive precisely because
    they
    are spiritually stunted. It is their
    obliviousness
    to the holy things in life, their feverish
    energy,
    their injustice, their shallow pursuit of power
    and
    gain, that allow them to build fortunes, construct
    weapons,
    and play the role of hyperpower.

    And
    so just as the French intellectuals of the 1830s
    rose
    up to despise the traders and bankers, certain
    people
    today rise up to shock, humiliate, and dream of
    destroying
    America and Israel. Today's bourgeoisophobes
    burn
    with the same sense of unjust inferiority. They
    experience
    the same humiliation because there is nothing
    they
    can do to thwart the growing might of their
    enemies.
    They rage and rage. Only today's
    bourgeoisophobes
    are not just artists and intellectuals.
    They
    are as likely to be terrorists and suicide bombers.
    They
    teach in madrassas, where they are careful not to
    instruct
    their students in the sort of practical
    knowledge
    that dominates bourgeois schools. They are
    Muslim
    clerics who incite hatred and violence. They are
    erudite
    Europeans who burn with humiliation because they
    know,
    deep down, that both America and Israel possess a
    vitality
    and heroism that their nations once had but no
    longer
    do.
    ...

    ( originally linked from www.dynamist.com
    )

    ---

    On 28 Jul 2002 at 12:53, Mladen
    Gogala wrote:

    ...
    This debate
    is getting increasingly personal and that is why I am going
    to end
    it right
    now. I tried avoiding a personal conflict in my first reply,
    but you
    insisted.
    As I have nothing to gain from the squabble, I'm out of here.

    ...

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Eric D. Pierce
    INET: eric_d_pierce@pacbell.net

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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
  • Yechiel Adar at Jul 29, 2002 at 10:18 am
    Eric, thank you for your illuminating notes on the reason they hate us.

    Just two points:
    1) A few days ago a bomb explode in India killing 50 people.

    I did not heard ANY remarks from anybody condemning this.
    2) All the people who cry for the Palestinians and demand they

    should have their own country does not give a shit about the Curds
    (for example) who are in worse condition.

    The Europe countries are basing their policy on Jew hating.

    Yechiel Adar
    Mehish
    ISRAEL

    Original Message -----
    From: Eric D. Pierce
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 7:03 AM
    Subject: Re: Install Oracle 8i on Windows XP?

    Absurd. Your intention from the beginning was to be a snobby jerk.

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/102gwtnf.asp

    Among the Bourgeoisophobes

    Why the Europeans and Arabs, each in their own way, hate
    America and Israel.

    by David Brooks

    04/15/2002, Volume 007, Issue 30

    AROUND 1830, a group of French artists and intellectuals
    looked around and noticed that people who were their
    spiritual inferiors were running the world. Suddenly a
    large crowd of merchants, managers, and traders were
    making lots of money, living in the big houses, and
    holding the key posts. They had none of the high style
    of the aristocracy, or even the earthy integrity of the
    peasants. Instead, they were gross. They were vulgar
    materialists, shallow conformists, and self-absorbed
    philistines, who half the time failed even to
    acknowledge their moral and spiritual inferiority
    to the artists and intellectuals. What's more, it was
    their very mediocrity that accounted for their success.
    Through some screw-up in the great scheme of the
    universe, their narrow-minded greed had brought them
    vast wealth, unstoppable power, and growing social
    prestige.

    Naturally, the artists and intellectuals were outraged.
    Hatred of the bourgeoisie became the official emotion of
    the French intelligentsia. Stendhal said traders and
    merchants made him want to "weep and vomit at the same
    time." Flaubert thought they were "plodding and
    avaricious." Hatred of the bourgeoisie, he wrote, "is
    the beginning of all virtue." He signed his letters
    "Bourgeoisophobus" to show how much he despised "stupid
    grocers and their ilk."

    Of all the great creeds of the 19th century, pretty much
    the only one still thriving is this one,
    bourgeoisophobia. Marxism is dead. Freudianism is dead.
    Social Darwinism is dead, along with all those theories
    about racial purity that grew up around it. But the
    emotions and reactions that Flaubert, Stendhal, and all
    the others articulated in the 1830s are still with us,
    bigger than ever. In fact, bourgeoisophobia, which has
    flowered variously and spread to places as diverse as
    Baghdad, Ramallah, and Beijing, is the major reactionary
    creed of our age.

    This is because today, in much of the world's eyes, two
    peoples--the Americans and the Jews--have emerged as the
    great exemplars of undeserved success. Americans and
    Israelis, in this view, are the money-mad molochs
    of the earth, the vulgarizers of morals, corrupters of
    culture, and proselytizers of idolatrous values. These
    two nations, it is said, practice conquest capitalism,
    overrunning poorer nations and exploiting weaker
    neighbors in their endless desire for more and more.
    These two peoples, the Americans and the Jews, in the
    view of the bourgeoisophobes, thrive precisely because
    they are spiritually stunted. It is their
    obliviousness to the holy things in life, their feverish
    energy, their injustice, their shallow pursuit of power
    and gain, that allow them to build fortunes, construct
    weapons, and play the role of hyperpower.

    And so just as the French intellectuals of the 1830s
    rose up to despise the traders and bankers, certain
    people today rise up to shock, humiliate, and dream of
    destroying America and Israel. Today's bourgeoisophobes
    burn with the same sense of unjust inferiority. They
    experience the same humiliation because there is nothing
    they can do to thwart the growing might of their
    enemies. They rage and rage. Only today's
    bourgeoisophobes are not just artists and intellectuals.
    They are as likely to be terrorists and suicide bombers.
    They teach in madrassas, where they are careful not to
    instruct their students in the sort of practical
    knowledge that dominates bourgeois schools. They are
    Muslim clerics who incite hatred and violence. They are
    erudite Europeans who burn with humiliation because they
    know, deep down, that both America and Israel possess a
    vitality and heroism that their nations once had but no
    longer do.

    ...

    ( originally linked from www.dynamist.com )

    ---

    On 28 Jul 2002 at 12:53, Mladen Gogala wrote:

    ...
    This debate is getting increasingly personal and that is why I am going
    to end
    it right now. I tried avoiding a personal conflict in my first reply,
    but you
    insisted. As I have nothing to gain from the squabble, I'm out of here.
    ...

    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: eric_d_pierce@pacbell.net Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru@fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Yechiel Adar
    INET: adar76_at_inter.net.il

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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
  • Joe Raube at Jul 29, 2002 at 12:53 pm
    Please end this thread and/or take it off the list...

    Thank you.

    Yechiel Adar wrote:
    Eric, thank you for your illuminating notes on the reason they hate
    us.


    Just two points:
    1) A few days ago a bomb explode in India killing 50 people.
    I did not heard ANY remarks from anybody condemning this.
    2) All the people who cry for the Palestinians and demand they
    should have their own country does not give a shit about the
    Curds
    (for example) who are in worse condition.

    The Europe countries are basing their policy on Jew hating.



    Yechiel Adar
    Mehish
    ISRAEL
    Do You Yahoo!?
    Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
    http://health.yahoo.com

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Joe Raube
    INET: jraube_at_yahoo.com

    Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
    San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
  • Jared Still at Jul 29, 2002 at 4:34 pm
    Indeed. I hadn't looked at the list since Friday, and I thought it
    was done with then.

    Jared
    On Monday 29 July 2002 05:53, Joe Raube wrote:
    Please end this thread and/or take it off the list...

    Thank you.

    --- Yechiel Adar wrote:
    Eric, thank you for your illuminating notes on the reason they hate
    us.


    Just two points:
    1) A few days ago a bomb explode in India killing 50 people.
    I did not heard ANY remarks from anybody condemning this.
    2) All the people who cry for the Palestinians and demand they
    should have their own country does not give a shit about the
    Curds
    (for example) who are in worse condition.

    The Europe countries are basing their policy on Jew hating.



    Yechiel Adar
    Mehish
    ISRAEL
    __________________________________________________
    Do You Yahoo!?
    Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
    http://health.yahoo.com
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Jared Still
    INET: jkstill_at_cybcon.com

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  • Jared.Still_at_radisys.com at Jul 29, 2002 at 6:43 pm
    Eric,

    Need I remind you that this is an Oracle forum?

    We all enjoy a little off topic banter mixed in with technical discussion,
    but
    this is really over the top.

    Please stop it.

    Jared

    "Eric D. Pierce"
    Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com
    07/28/2002 10:03 PM
    Please respond to ORACLE-L



    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    cc:
    Subject: Re: Install Oracle 8i on Windows XP?

    Absurd. Your intention from the beginning was to be a snobby jerk.

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/102gwtnf.asp

    Among the Bourgeoisophobes

    Why the Europeans and Arabs, each in their own way, hate
    America and Israel.

    by David Brooks

    04/15/2002, Volume 007, Issue 30

    AROUND 1830, a group of French artists and intellectuals
    looked around and noticed that people who were their
    spiritual inferiors were running the world. Suddenly a
    large crowd of merchants, managers, and traders were
    making lots of money, living in the big houses, and
    holding the key posts. They had none of the high style
    of the aristocracy, or even the earthy integrity of the
    peasants. Instead, they were gross. They were vulgar
    materialists, shallow conformists, and self-absorbed
    philistines, who half the time failed even to
    acknowledge their moral and spiritual inferiority
    to the artists and intellectuals. What's more, it was
    their very mediocrity that accounted for their success.
    Through some screw-up in the great scheme of the
    universe, their narrow-minded greed had brought them
    vast wealth, unstoppable power, and growing social
    prestige.

    Naturally, the artists and intellectuals were outraged.
    Hatred of the bourgeoisie became the official emotion of
    the French intelligentsia. Stendhal said traders and
    merchants made him want to "weep and vomit at the same
    time." Flaubert thought they were "plodding and
    avaricious." Hatred of the bourgeoisie, he wrote, "is
    the beginning of all virtue." He signed his letters
    "Bourgeoisophobus" to show how much he despised "stupid
    grocers and their ilk."

    Of all the great creeds of the 19th century, pretty much
    the only one still thriving is this one,
    bourgeoisophobia. Marxism is dead. Freudianism is dead.
    Social Darwinism is dead, along with all those theories
    about racial purity that grew up around it. But the
    emotions and reactions that Flaubert, Stendhal, and all
    the others articulated in the 1830s are still with us,
    bigger than ever. In fact, bourgeoisophobia, which has
    flowered variously and spread to places as diverse as
    Baghdad, Ramallah, and Beijing, is the major reactionary
    creed of our age.

    This is because today, in much of the world's eyes, two
    peoples--the Americans and the Jews--have emerged as the
    great exemplars of undeserved success. Americans and
    Israelis, in this view, are the money-mad molochs
    of the earth, the vulgarizers of morals, corrupters of
    culture, and proselytizers of idolatrous values. These
    two nations, it is said, practice conquest capitalism,
    overrunning poorer nations and exploiting weaker
    neighbors in their endless desire for more and more.
    These two peoples, the Americans and the Jews, in the
    view of the bourgeoisophobes, thrive precisely because
    they are spiritually stunted. It is their
    obliviousness to the holy things in life, their feverish
    energy, their injustice, their shallow pursuit of power
    and gain, that allow them to build fortunes, construct
    weapons, and play the role of hyperpower.

    And so just as the French intellectuals of the 1830s
    rose up to despise the traders and bankers, certain
    people today rise up to shock, humiliate, and dream of
    destroying America and Israel. Today's bourgeoisophobes
    burn with the same sense of unjust inferiority. They
    experience the same humiliation because there is nothing
    they can do to thwart the growing might of their
    enemies. They rage and rage. Only today's
    bourgeoisophobes are not just artists and intellectuals.
    They are as likely to be terrorists and suicide bombers.
    They teach in madrassas, where they are careful not to
    instruct their students in the sort of practical
    knowledge that dominates bourgeois schools. They are
    Muslim clerics who incite hatred and violence. They are
    erudite Europeans who burn with humiliation because they
    know, deep down, that both America and Israel possess a
    vitality and heroism that their nations once had but no
    longer do.

    ...

    ( originally linked from www.dynamist.com )

    ---

    On 28 Jul 2002 at 12:53, Mladen Gogala wrote:

    ...
    This debate is getting increasingly personal and that is why I am going
    to end
    it right now. I tried avoiding a personal conflict in my first reply,
    but you
    insisted. As I have nothing to gain from the squabble, I'm out of here.
    ...

    -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: eric_d_pierce@pacbell.net Fat City
    Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego,
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    Author:
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  • Ramon E. Estevez at Jul 29, 2002 at 7:38 pm
    Easier, RH, easier ???

    Are you kidding.....

    Original Message -----
    To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
    Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 2:48 PM
    On 2002.07.27 14:49 Eric D. Pierce wrote:
    JUST SETUP A DUAL BOOT OF WINDOWS 2000 PRO AND WINDOWS XP PRO
    AND MAKE YOUR LIFE EASIER!!!

    And then reformat all your disks, install Red Hat 7.3 and make your life
    still easier. No dual boot required. Keep your system Micros*t free.
    ---

    Remember, "Windows .NET Server 2003" (the precise term used by
    Bill Gates recently) is the next evolution of the kind of
    production platform that Oracle server needs to run on,

    Yes. The most significant advance is that the blue screen of death will
    be replaced by the green one, to signify Microsoft's concerns for our
    environment. Microsoft is famous for the stability of its products,
    particularly
    the Exchange. Microsoft is really something that you want your
    production
    database to be running on. Does the ".net" part mean that a database
    running
    on a MS sever will be vulnerable to any damned virus there is on the
    (.)net?


    --> NOT XP
    (which is a desktop platform)!!!

    Not on my desk!
    XP is the desktop "Whistler", whereas Windows .NET Server 2003
    is the server version of "Whistler".

    Oracle will probably have the same problem with "Longhorn",
    which will be the next evolutionary step in the desktop

    Since when is return to the dinosaurs called "evolution"?
    progression after "XP".

    Donward progression, that is. Just press Ctrl-Alt-Del.

    --
    Mladen Gogala
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Mladen Gogala
    INET: mgogala_at_adelphia.net

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    Author: Ramon E. Estevez
    INET: com.banilejas_at_codetel.net.do

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  • Emopierc_at_pacbell.net at Jul 29, 2002 at 8:28 pm
    from a private message:
    Suggestion: make it clear to the elitist unix bigots that if they
    intend to regularly engage in ad hominem attacks and insults that
    are clearly intended to disrupt the purpose of the list, which
    would include people discussing oracle technology on windows free
    of irrelevant b.s., it will be considered a violation of list
    rules.

    I delete 98% of posts that are unix/mainframe related, why can't
    the unix people do the same thing, and simply focus on what they
    are interested in instead of interfering with other people's
    conversations?
    Original Message:

    Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:43:29 -0800
    To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com

    Eric,

    Need I remind you that this is an Oracle forum?

    ....

    mail2web - Check your email from the web at
    http://mail2web.com/ .

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: emopierc_at_pacbell.net
    INET: emopierc_at_pacbell.net

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  • Jacques Kilchoer at Jul 29, 2002 at 8:53 pm
    Mr. Pierce - the only ad hominem attacks I saw were from you. Someone posted
    "Don't use Windows", a generic disparagement of the operating system. You
    immediately responded with a personal insult calling the person an asshole.
    You then followed it up with a post asserting the cultural superiority of
    Americans and Israelis over the rest of the world.
    I suggest that you refrain from personal insults and from political
    diatribes.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: emopierc_at_pacbell.net

    from a private message:
    Suggestion: make it clear to the elitist unix bigots that if they
    intend to regularly engage in ad hominem attacks and insults that
    are clearly intended to disrupt the purpose of the list, which
    would include people discussing oracle technology on windows free
    of irrelevant b.s., it will be considered a violation of list
    rules.

    I delete 98% of posts that are unix/mainframe related, why can't
    the unix people do the same thing, and simply focus on what they
    are interested in instead of interfering with other people's
    conversations?
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Jacques Kilchoer
    INET: Jacques.Kilchoer_at_quest.com

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  • Daniel Wisser at Jul 30, 2002 at 9:48 am
    i am sorry i have to give another reply to the
    WINDOWS issue, quoting also a cultural superior american
    named frank zappa

    all that we got here's american made
    it's a little bit cheesy, but it's nicely displayed

    well we don't get excited when it crumbles and breaks
    we get on the phone and call up some flakes
    they rush on over on wreck it some more
    and we are so dumb they're lining up at our door

    (from Sheik Yerbouti, Flakes)

    forgive me for this mail and delete it

    daniel
    Jacques Kilchoer wrote:

    Mr. Pierce - the only ad hominem attacks I saw were from you. Someone
    posted "Don't use Windows", a generic disparagement of the operating
    system. You immediately responded with a personal insult calling the
    person an asshole.

    You then followed it up with a post asserting the cultural superiority
    of Americans and Israelis over the rest of the world.

    I suggest that you refrain from personal insults and from political
    diatribes.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: emopierc_at_pacbell.net

    from a private message:
    Suggestion: make it clear to the elitist unix bigots that if they
    intend to regularly engage in ad hominem attacks and insults that
    are clearly intended to disrupt the purpose of the list, which
    would include people discussing oracle technology on windows free
    of irrelevant b.s., it will be considered a violation of list
    rules.

    I delete 98% of posts that are unix/mainframe related, why can't
    the unix people do the same thing, and simply focus on what they
    are interested in instead of interfering with other people's
    conversations?
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Daniel Wisser
    INET: daniel.wisser_at_isis-papyrus.com

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  • Eric D. Pierce at Jul 30, 2002 at 3:58 pm

    On 28 Jul 2002 at 19:33, Michael Kline wrote:

    There are a lot of
    stable production windows server systems. Not as good Unix,
    but it doesn't have to be.
    Oh, there are? I've also heard that legend, but after having an
    Exchange server down
    last week for almost a day, I stopped believing it. Moreover, for the
    database server,
    it DOES HAVE to be as good and as stable as possible. I can live with
    rebooting
    a desktop machine twice a day, but if that happens to the database
    server, I'm in
    trouble. That is why my company is using 4-way HP 9000/N cluster. NT
    simply doesn't
    cut it.
    I've had several Windows NT and 2000 servers that will run Oracle for
    months, but Linux is quite good as well.

    I remember once while testing software, I had to "busy" a version 8
    database, then use the software(DB Scope) to look over the database
    and tell me what was wrong. I got it busy inserting records, dropping
    records, doing full table scans in a script that just kept repeating
    itself.
    Sorry if I missed it before, but what is "DB Scope"?


    Well a few months later I had a revision to the software and had to look
    at a Version 8 database again... I found the I/O in the billions and
    couldn't figure out why.
    Which one? The NT?
    The Linux box had been running at 99% CPU running my script for 2-3 months
    doing that test on Oracle 8, running our backup DNS, and backup Email
    server and no one even knew the box was that busy...
    yes, well.... err....
    "backup DNS" and "backup Email server" ??? what kind of load
    do they put on the system? Furthermore, does the "backup Email
    server" have equivalent functionality as Exchange?

    I've had Oracle7.3 running on Netware for years along with
    file, print services and an email server (not to mention a
    tape backup program!!!).

    executing the dos command "copy n:lrg_file.txt o:*.*"
    practically kills the whole server, oracle or not.
    Yet, our super
    powerful Exchange Server was down usually 1-2 times a week and was probably
    3-5 times faster with twin processors.
    Yes, Exchange (aka SQL Server) is a nightmare, which is well
    understood by ayone that has been in the windows server world
    for long.

    Which is irrelevant to running Oracle on NT/2000 as far as I
    can tell.
    Usually when management sees a Windows database server and tries to
    "add" something to it, that's when you really start having problems.
    Keep it "plain" and it will do much better.
    Excellent advice, that is what we do.

    Unfortunately, for non-enterprise Oracle users, you need a
    pile of NT/2000 servers (don't know if this is same for *nix)
    if you want to use the main components of Oracle's latest
    technology stack.

    db server
    OEM server
    connectivity server (oracle names, or whatever the heck
    they call it)
    iAS server
    and goodness knows what else, I haven't finished PTFM/RTFM
    for db v8i/9i

    blech.

    presumably, at least for small/non-enterprise installs, #2 and
    #3 can probably run (together) on an old utility box, which we
    will have a lot of as there are hundreds of desktop PII/350
    SMP boxes (IBM Intellistations) that are being replaced by new
    P4s.
    I just found 99% cpu for 3 months very impressive.
    Great. It is refreshing to see someone providing some actual
    factual info.

    My assumption is that (everything else equal) *nix on a PC
    server is a superior technology, more performant, more stable.

    Unfortunately one has to know a lot more low level tech stuff
    to get into the *nix game than is the case with windows, and
    therefore *nix on a PC will remain to a large extent in the
    domain of high-skill-set purists and tech elites, not the mass
    market.

    regards,
    ep

    http://www.retrobox.com/rbwww/home

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Eric D. Pierce
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  • Gogala, Mladen at Jul 30, 2002 at 6:06 pm

    My assumption is that (everything else equal) *nix on a PC
    server is a superior technology, more performant, more stable.

    Unfortunately one has to know a lot more low level tech stuff
    to get into the *nix game than is the case with windows, and
    therefore *nix on a PC will remain to a large extent in the
    domain of high-skill-set purists and tech elites, not the mass
    market.
    For running a stable production database that a company can rely on,
    those " high-skill-set purists and tech elitist a*holes" are still needed.
    It's not a job for the faint hearted "clickety click" people. Name of the
    game is 99% uptime and it's only for the major league, and that means Unix
    and OS/390

    --
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    --
    Author: Gogala, Mladen
    INET: MGogala_at_oxhp.com

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  • Eric D. Pierce at Jul 31, 2002 at 8:53 am

    My assumption is that (everything else equal) *nix on a PC
    server is a superior technology, more performant, more stable.

    Unfortunately one has to know a lot more low level tech stuff
    to get into the *nix game than is the case with windows, and
    therefore *nix on a PC will remain to a large extent in the
    domain of high-skill-set purists and tech elites, not the mass
    market.
    On 30 Jul 2002 at 10:06, Gargoyle wrote:

    For running a stable production database that a company can rely on,
    those " high-skill-set purists and tech elitist a*holes" are still needed.
    ...

    Right, and that is why 10 of millions of people have
    *nix and IBM mainframes at home on their desktops to
    do word processing and email.

    --
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    --
    Author: Eric D. Pierce
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  • Eric D. Pierce at Jul 31, 2002 at 9:03 am
    Oh, I forgot to ask, have your "major league" people
    figured out how to get Exchange (aka SQL Server)
    working right yet?

    It can't be all *that* hard for "major league" people
    to figure out how to correctly implement some li'l ol'
    clickey clickey MS thingy like Exchange, right?

    :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
    On 30 Jul 2002 at 10:06, Gargoyle wrote:


    For running a stable production database that a company can rely on,
    those " high-skill-set purists and tech elitist a*holes" are still needed.
    It's not a job for the faint hearted "clickety click" people. Name of the
    game is 99% uptime and it's only for the major league, and that means Unix
    and OS/390
    --
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    --
    Author: Eric D. Pierce
    INET: eric_d_pierce_at_pacbell.net

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  • Jared.Still_at_radisys.com at Jul 31, 2002 at 5:31 pm
    Eric,

    I've asked both you and Mladen to let this thread die. Mladen agreed,
    and has not made further replies to this thread.

    You however seem to get some gratification from annoying the hell
    out of everyone else.

    Please stop it now. I'm tired of dealing with it. I have many better
    things to do with my time than act as a referee.

    This forum is intended to be informational, educational, conversational
    and enjoyable, all while maintaining ties with what we all do for a
    living.

    At the moment, I'm not having any fun. It's easy enough to find stress
    in the world, and I and everyone else here don't care to volunteer for
    more.

    I've only booted two people off of this list since it's creation, please
    don't cause me to make it three.

    Jared

    "Eric D. Pierce"
    Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com
    07/31/2002 02:03 AM
    Please respond to ORACLE-L



    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    cc:
    Subject: RE: Install Oracle 8i on Windows XP?

    Oh, I forgot to ask, have your "major league" people
    figured out how to get Exchange (aka SQL Server)
    working right yet?

    It can't be all *that* hard for "major league" people
    to figure out how to correctly implement some li'l ol'
    clickey clickey MS thingy like Exchange, right?

    :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
    On 30 Jul 2002 at 10:06, Gargoyle wrote:


    For running a stable production database that a company can rely on,
    those " high-skill-set purists and tech elitist a*holes" are still needed.
    It's not a job for the faint hearted "clickety click" people. Name of the
    game is 99% uptime and it's only for the major league, and that means Unix
    and OS/390
    --
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    --
    Author: Eric D. Pierce
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    Author:
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  • Eric D. Pierce at Jul 31, 2002 at 5:56 pm
    Jared,

    "Let the thread die"? Are you daft, Mladen didn't let
    it die at all. Here is the message header from his
    mesage in which he continued to INTERFERE AND ATTEMPT
    TO DISRUPT with other people's legitimate
    conversation:

    BEGIN ===

    Return-path:
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    Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:06:15 -0800
    From: "Gogala, Mladen"
    Subject: RE: Install Oracle 8i on Windows XP?
    Sender: root_at_fatcity.com
    X-Sender: "Gogala, Mladen"
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Errors-to: ML-ERRORS_at_fatcity.com
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    I guess that "certain types" of people *will* "get
    recourse" on the list, and "others" won't?

    As far as I'm concerned your policy is incompetent
    (double standard), and I will be sending a complaint
    to Bruce and Fatcity that the once respectable, open,
    public list has become a haven for unix bigots.

    (feel free to unsubscribe me if you don't have the
    time to do a proper job running the list in a fair
    manner).

    regards,
    ep
    On 31 Jul 2002 at 9:31, Jared.Still_at_radisys.com wrote:

    Eric,

    I've asked both you and Mladen to let this thread die. Mladen agreed,
    and has not made further replies to this thread.

    You however seem to get some gratification from annoying the hell
    out of everyone else.

    Please stop it now. I'm tired of dealing with it. I have many better
    things to do with my time than act as a referee.

    This forum is intended to be informational, educational, conversational
    and enjoyable, all while maintaining ties with what we all do for a
    living.

    At the moment, I'm not having any fun. It's easy enough to find stress
    in the world, and I and everyone else here don't care to volunteer for
    more.

    I've only booted two people off of this list since it's creation, please
    don't cause me to make it three.

    Jared






    "Eric D. Pierce"
    Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com
    07/31/2002 02:03 AM
    Please respond to ORACLE-L


    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    cc:
    Subject: RE: Install Oracle 8i on Windows XP?


    Oh, I forgot to ask, have your "major league" people
    figured out how to get Exchange (aka SQL Server)
    working right yet?

    It can't be all *that* hard for "major league" people
    to figure out how to correctly implement some li'l ol'
    clickey clickey MS thingy like Exchange, right?

    :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

    On 30 Jul 2002 at 10:06, Gargoyle wrote:

    For running a stable production database that a company can rely on,
    those " high-skill-set purists and tech elitist a*holes" are still needed.
    It's not a job for the faint hearted "clickety click" people. Name of the
    game is 99% uptime and it's only for the major league, and that means Unix
    and OS/390
    ...

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Eric D. Pierce
    INET: eric_d_pierce_at_pacbell.net

    Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
    San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
    to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
    the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
    (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
  • Jared.Still_at_radisys.com at Jul 31, 2002 at 7:09 pm
    Call me what you like, I really don't care.

    There are bigots on both sides of the MS/Unix fence. I happen
    to prefer unix, but tolerate both types of bigots, and even work
    with NT/Win2k extensively.

    What I don't tolerate well are tirades and name calling.

    100% of email from folks reading this thread seem to agree.

    Bye.

    Jared

    "This electronic message contains information which may be confidential,
    privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. The information is
    intended to be used solely by the named recipient(s). If you are not a
    named recipient, any review, disclosure, copying, distribution or use
    of this transmission or its contents is prohibited. If you have received
    this transmission in error, please notify me immediately."

    "Eric D. Pierce"
    Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com
    07/31/2002 10:56 AM
    Please respond to ORACLE-L



    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    cc:
    Subject: RE: Install Oracle 8i on Windows XP?

    Jared,

    "Let the thread die"? Are you daft, Mladen didn't let
    it die at all. Here is the message header from his
    mesage in which he continued to INTERFERE AND ATTEMPT
    TO DISRUPT with other people's legitimate
    conversation:

    BEGIN ===

    Return-path:
    Received: from mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (mta1-pr.snfc21.pbi.net)
    by sims4.snfc21.pbi.net
    (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10)
    with ESMTP id <0H0200GE0ODHR1_at_sims4.snfc21.pbi.net> for
    emopierc_at_sims-ms-daemon; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:24:56 -0700 (PDT)
    Received: from vm3-ext.prodigy.net ([207.115.63.95])
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    <0H02003F0OD5NZ_at_mta1.snfc21.pbi.net> for
    emopierc_at_sims4.snfc21.pbi.net; Tue,
    30 Jul 2002 10:24:42 -0700 (PDT)
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    ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 13:24:40 -0400
    Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp_at_localhost) by newsfeed.cts.com
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    004A629A; Tue,
    30 Jul 2002 10:06:15 -0800
    Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:06:15 -0800
    From: "Gogala, Mladen"
    Subject: RE: Install Oracle 8i on Windows XP?
    Sender: root_at_fatcity.com
    X-Sender: "Gogala, Mladen"
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Errors-to: ML-ERRORS_at_fatcity.com
    Reply-to: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
    Message-id:

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    Bergman

    END ===

    I guess that "certain types" of people *will* "get
    recourse" on the list, and "others" won't?

    As far as I'm concerned your policy is incompetent
    (double standard), and I will be sending a complaint
    to Bruce and Fatcity that the once respectable, open,
    public list has become a haven for unix bigots.

    (feel free to unsubscribe me if you don't have the
    time to do a proper job running the list in a fair
    manner).

    regards,
    ep
    On 31 Jul 2002 at 9:31, Jared.Still_at_radisys.com wrote:

    Eric,

    I've asked both you and Mladen to let this thread die. Mladen agreed,
    and has not made further replies to this thread.

    You however seem to get some gratification from annoying the hell
    out of everyone else.

    Please stop it now. I'm tired of dealing with it. I have many better
    things to do with my time than act as a referee.

    This forum is intended to be informational, educational, conversational
    and enjoyable, all while maintaining ties with what we all do for a
    living.

    At the moment, I'm not having any fun. It's easy enough to find stress
    in the world, and I and everyone else here don't care to volunteer for
    more.

    I've only booted two people off of this list since it's creation, please
    don't cause me to make it three.

    Jared






    "Eric D. Pierce"
    Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com
    07/31/2002 02:03 AM
    Please respond to ORACLE-L


    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    cc:
    Subject: RE: Install Oracle 8i on Windows XP?


    Oh, I forgot to ask, have your "major league" people
    figured out how to get Exchange (aka SQL Server)
    working right yet?

    It can't be all *that* hard for "major league" people
    to figure out how to correctly implement some li'l ol'
    clickey clickey MS thingy like Exchange, right?

    :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

    On 30 Jul 2002 at 10:06, Gargoyle wrote:

    For running a stable production database that a company can rely on,
    those " high-skill-set purists and tech elitist a*holes" are still needed.
    It's not a job for the faint hearted "clickety click" people. Name of the
    game is 99% uptime and it's only for the major league, and that means Unix
    and OS/390
    ...

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author: Eric D. Pierce
    INET: eric_d_pierce_at_pacbell.net

    Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
    San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
    to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
    the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
    (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
    --
    Author:
    INET: Jared.Still_at_radisys.com

    Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
    San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
    to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
    the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
    (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

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