FAQ
Val,

For a real dinosaur, try Jovial. Created by Teledyne for the USAF to
"improve the performance of ECM equipment". Last used in the late 70's after a
fitful 10 year lifespan. If I remember correctly there were about 50 people in
the world who knew it.

As for your C code, take a serious look at what is being done. I took a
number of C programs and after disecting them re-wrote then in PL/SQL and C. In
the end it was a lot less code & the time to execute dropped from minutes to
seconds.

Dick Goulet

____________________Reply Separator____________________
Author: Webber Valerie H
Date: 4/22/2002 9:30 AM

Dick,

Thanks for the information. You make a good point about learning curve
(which is a concern the client has too) and about breaking up the C code.
Yes, I am a contractor with the IRS but this project was always written in
C. Never in Ada.. thank goodness...

Currently the system runs on an Informix database but will be converted to
Oracle since it is the new IRS system of choice. (Good move) I was just
concerned that keeping the C would be keeping a dinosaur in the backyard out
of fear of a learning curve. We have the time to convert it and deal with
the learning curve. The C code is pretty much spaghetti code after 17 years
of band-aids and duct tape. It desperately needs to be reworked/redesigned
not to mention adding Pro*C. We have a sister project that chucked all their
C code and rewrote everything in Java. It was tough but the payoff was
great.

We may have to decide on a module-by-module basis. Ada... now there's a
dinosaur if I ever heard of one... :)

Val

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 10:33 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Valerie,

C is still a very heavily used language, although for a complete
application
I'd probably want to use a C++ variant since they come with screen painter
tools. Migrating from C to Forms/Reports would not be unthinkable, but
don't
underestimate the learning curve. As far as eliminating the external
procedure
call, if that's the way the application is written, then your stuck and no
it
will not be eliminated. What may then be more efficient is to take that C
code
& break it up into what is database only and what is C only. Then re-code
the
application as PL/SQL (or stored Java if your so inclined) keeping in pure C
only that which cannot be done otherwise.

The industry trend I would have to say is headed towards thin clients
and
three tier applications which serve internal and external customers and
Java.
While I agree with the trend in many cases there are too many times that the
trend does not really fit the needs. In many a case we end up just moving
the
bottle neck from one place to the other & sometimes making it worse. Case
in
point is PeopleSoft. There is a panel in the stock room maintenance that
updates several tables and rows. Now that is a two tier problem since a lot
of
data is moving from the server to the client, being processed, and then sent
back. But we can id the bottleneck here in that the end user NEEDS a beefy
PC.
Now you move that into a three tier mess & the bottle neck gets harder to
find
since data moves from the database to the app server, to the client, gets
processed & sent back to the apps server which does more processing, and
then
back to the database. Result, you still need the beefy PC on the client
side,
but you almost need a one to one setup on the app server as well. So then
each
client actually needs two beefy PC's to do the job in a reasonable manner.
YUCK!! Who said thin client was easier & cheaper? Must have been some
ignorant
sales droid at the app server vendor.

I note that your address is with the IRS, has the idea of doing Ada
cropped
up yet? OH, bad joke, it's suppose to be the government's "standard
programing
language" as declared by Congress back in the 80's. Then, PL/SQL is the Son
of
Ada!!

Dick Goulet

____________________Reply Separator____________________
Author: Webber Valerie H
Date: 4/22/2002 5:28 AM

Are there any white papers on industry trends for architecture including
programming languages. I'm working on a project that is in the early stages
of a redesign. The current application uses C code entirely including user
interface. The client is sold on Oracle Forms/Reports but is reluctant to
trash the C code and start from scratch. This is the first such redesign in
17 years.

Does a 3 tier architecture using iAS minimize or eliminate the cost in
performance of the external procedure call to the C program from a stored
procedure?

Any information will be helpful...
Thank in advance,
Val

Valerie H. Webber
Management Systems Designers, Inc
Database Administrator
valerie.h.webber_at_irs.gov
704-566-5321

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">

White papers on industry trends

Are there any white papers on
industry trends for architecture including programming languages. I'm
working on
a project that is in the early stages of a redesign. The current application
uses C code entirely including user interface. The client is sold on Oracle
Forms/Reports but is reluctant to trash the C code and start from scratch.
This
is the first such redesign in 17 years.

Does a 3 tier architecture
using
iAS minimize or eliminate the cost in performance of the external procedure
call
to the C program from a stored procedure?

Any information will be
helpful...
Thank in advance,
Val

Valerie H. Webber
Management Systems Designers,
Inc
Database Administrator
valerie.h.webber_at_irs.gov
704-566-5321

--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author:
INET: dgoulet_at_vicr.com

Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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RE: White papers on industry trends

Dick,

Thanks for the information. You make a good point about learning
curve (which is a concern the client has too) and about breaking up the C code.
Yes, I am a contractor with the IRS but this project was always written in C.
Never in Ada.. thank goodness...

Currently the system runs on an Informix database but will be
converted to Oracle since it is the new IRS system of choice. (Good move) I was
just concerned that keeping the C would be keeping a dinosaur in the backyard
out of fear of a learning curve. We have the time to convert it and deal with
the learning curve. The C code is pretty much spaghetti code after 17 years of
band-aids and duct tape. It desperately needs to be reworked/redesigned not to
mention adding Pro*C. We have a sister project that chucked all their C code and
rewrote everything in Java. It was tough but the payoff was great.

We may have to decide on a module-by-module basis. Ada... now
there's a dinosaur if I ever heard of one... :)

Val

-----Original Message-----
From: dgoulet_at_vicr.com [
HREF="mailto:dgoulet_at_vicr.com">mailto:dgoulet_at_vicr.com]
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 10:33 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re:White papers on industry trends

Valerie,

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; C is still a very heavily used language,
although for a complete application
I'd probably want to use a C++ variant since they come with
screen painter
tools.&nbsp; Migrating from C to Forms/Reports would not be
unthinkable, but don't
underestimate the learning curve.&nbsp; As far as eliminating
the external procedure
call, if that's the way the application is written, then your
stuck and no it
will not be eliminated.&nbsp; What may then be more efficient
is to take that C code
&amp; break it up into what is database only and what is C
only.&nbsp; Then re-code the
application as PL/SQL (or stored Java if your so inclined)
keeping in pure C
only that which cannot be done otherwise.

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The industry trend I would have to say is
headed towards&nbsp; thin clients and
three tier applications which serve internal and external
customers and Java.
While I agree with the trend in many cases there are too many
times that the
trend does not really fit the needs.&nbsp; In many a case we
end up just moving the
bottle neck from one place to the other &amp; sometimes making
it worse.&nbsp; Case in
point is PeopleSoft.&nbsp; There is a panel in the stock room
maintenance that
updates several tables and rows.&nbsp; Now that is a two tier
problem since a lot of
data is moving from the server to the client, being processed,
and then sent
back.&nbsp; But we can id the bottleneck here in that the end
user NEEDS a beefy PC.
Now you move that into a three tier mess &amp; the bottle neck
gets harder to find
since data moves from the database to the app server, to the
client, gets
processed &amp; sent back to the apps server which does more
processing, and then
back to the database.&nbsp; Result, you still need the beefy PC
on the client side,
but you almost need a one to one setup on the app server as
well.&nbsp; So then each
client actually needs two beefy PC's to do the job in a
reasonable manner.
YUCK!!&nbsp; Who said thin client was easier &amp;
cheaper?&nbsp; Must have been some ignorant
sales droid at the app server vendor.

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I note that your address is with the IRS, has
the idea of doing Ada cropped
up yet?&nbsp; OH, bad joke, it's suppose to be the government's
&quot;standard programing
language&quot; as declared by Congress back in the 80's.&nbsp;
Then, PL/SQL is the Son of
Ada!!

Dick Goulet

____________________Reply Separator____________________
Author: Webber Valerie H
&lt;Valerie.H.Webber_at_irs.gov&gt;
Date:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4/22/2002 5:28
AM

Are there any white papers on industry trends for architecture
including
programming languages. I'm working on a project that is in the
early stages
of a redesign. The current application uses C code entirely
including user
interface. The client is sold on Oracle Forms/Reports but is
reluctant to
trash the C code and start from scratch. This is the first such
redesign in
17 years.

Does a 3 tier architecture using iAS minimize or eliminate the
cost in
performance of the external procedure call to the C program
from a stored
procedure?

Any information will be helpful...
Thank in advance,
Val

Valerie H. Webber
Management Systems Designers, Inc
Database Administrator
valerie.h.webber_at_irs.gov
704-566-5321

&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML
3.2//EN&quot;&gt;
&lt;HTML&gt;
&lt;HEAD&gt;
&lt;META HTTP-EQUIV=&quot;Content-Type&quot;
CONTENT=&quot;text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1&quot;&gt;
&lt;META NAME=&quot;Generator&quot; CONTENT=&quot;MS Exchange
Server version 5.5.2653.12&quot;&gt;
&lt;TITLE&gt;White papers on industry
trends&lt;/TITLE&gt;
&lt;/HEAD&gt;
&lt;BODY&gt;

&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT COLOR=&quot;#000080&quot; FACE=&quot;Comic
Sans MS&quot;&gt;Are there any white papers on
industry trends for architecture including programming
languages. I'm working on
a project that is in the early stages of a redesign. The
current application
uses C code entirely including user interface. The client is
sold on Oracle
Forms/Reports but is reluctant to trash the C code and start
from scratch. This
is the first such redesign in 17
years.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;

&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT COLOR=&quot;#000080&quot; FACE=&quot;Comic
Sans MS&quot;&gt;Does a 3 tier architecture using
iAS minimize or eliminate the cost in performance of the
external procedure call
to the C program from a stored
procedure?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;

&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT COLOR=&quot;#000080&quot; FACE=&quot;Comic
Sans MS&quot;&gt;Any information will be
helpful...&lt;/FONT&gt;
&lt;BR&gt;&lt;FONT COLOR=&quot;#000080&quot; FACE=&quot;Comic
Sans MS&quot;&gt;Thank in advance,&lt;/FONT&gt;
&lt;BR&gt;&lt;FONT COLOR=&quot;#000080&quot; FACE=&quot;Comic
Sans MS&quot;&gt;Val&lt;/FONT&gt;
&lt;/P&gt;

&lt;P&gt;&lt;B&gt;&lt;FONT COLOR=&quot;#800080&quot;
FACE=&quot;Georgia&quot;&gt;Valerie H.
Webber&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/B&gt;&lt;BR&gt;
&lt;FONT COLOR=&quot;#800080&quot;
FACE=&quot;Georgia&quot;&gt;Management Systems Designers,
Inc&lt;/FONT&gt;
&lt;BR&gt;&lt;FONT COLOR=&quot;#800080&quot;
FACE=&quot;Georgia&quot;&gt;Database Administrator&lt;BR&gt;
valerie.h.webber_at_irs.gov&lt;BR&gt;
704-566-5321 &lt;/FONT&gt;
&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;BR&gt;

&lt;/BODY&gt;
&lt;/HTML&gt;
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