Morning all--

At last night's Dojo meeting, the topic of "what should included within a
distribution/distributions of the Dojo Toolkit" was discussed. Unlike
previous discussions (which focused primarily on what tools are needed/what
absolutely is required within a distribution), this discussion was intended
to begin deciding what "dojo-release-2.0.tar.gz" et al actually contains.

A summary of ideas:

1) Distribution(s) of 2.0+ are essentially marketing tools for the Dojo
Toolkit, in that what they contain should tell a clear "story" of what the
Dojo Toolkit is and why someone would want to choose it over other options.

2) Unit testing and documentation is a MUST; this means that before we can
create a 2.0 distribution,we MUST have ways of aggregating documentation
out of individual packages, including assembling content for reference
guides and API documentation. Christophe Jolif has begun experimenting
with ways of accomplishing this using his treemap package (at
https://github.com/cjolif/dojo-treemap/wiki ) as a test bed. I am looking
into the various unit testing systems that are out there before coming back
to DOH and seeing how we can make that a first-class product (i.e.
standalone).

3) Since everything in 2.0+ will be package-based, the following ideas were
floated as "releases":

3a) Several distributions containing different packages that are
"pluggable", based on the separations/features at
http://dojotoolkit.org/features . This would mean that there is one main
distribution (the Dojo Core essentially), and then several "add-on"
distributions such as (names are arbitrary):

- desktop (aka Dijit + some version of a Grid)
- mobile
- visualization (charting, gauges, geo)
- mvc/app
- tools (essentially our current /util but probably just DOH and the
build system, maybe doc assembly tools)

...the general idea being that a developer would grab the core distribution
and then whatever add-ons they were looking to develop with.

3b) In addition to the above, an "assemble your own distribution" tool
would be a very nice-to-have feature; this would probably do something
similar to http://packages.dojofoundation.org where one can find a list of
packages available, and have the server assemble a tarball/gzip on the fly.

3c) ...and/or there could be our typical kitchen sink release.

NEXT STEPS
1) Decide on what kind of distribution(s) should be taking place (i.e. take
the add-on approach or continue with kitchen-sink approach)
2) Decide on what exactly will be in said distributions
3) Begin developing the methods/tools needed

If we have a very good idea of how we're going to be distributing the
toolkit at 2.0, we can begin to restructure ourselves so that we can better
meet those goals. For instance, if we decide on the "add-on" approach, we
can break ourselves up into smaller teams (each with a lead of some sort)
based on the particular add-on (just a thought).

Also, we're going to definitely need a release team (not just a release
manager); when these distros are to be assembled, the release team will
need to:
1) collect all packages
2) unit-test all packages
3) assemble documentation from packages into one
4) create release notes (one would hope this would be part of the previous
step)
5) give it a stamp of approval

...before saying "add-on X" is ready for release. As usual, there can
always be a beta/RC period during which some of these steps may happen.

Lastly, Dylan brought up once again the need for a unified bug tracking
system; based on experiences so far with dgrid (another major project that
is intended to be a test bed for the packages concept), the github tracker
is confusing people because they don't know whether something is a dgrid
bug or a DTK one. If we are going to have a unified bug tracker, we should
really take a look at systems like https://www.chiliproject.org/ (the
current fork of Redmine)--because it allows people to set up multiple
projects within it. Obviously other suggestions are welcome, but I think
that having everything as a single project (a la Trac) is killing us.

As always, thoughts...suggestions...other ideas...are more than welcome!

Cheers--
Tom

PS As a personal opinion, one thing that I *do* thing should happen sooner
than later is the promotion of dojox.gfx to the Dojo core. Having a way of
doing cross-browser graphics should really be a core feature and not
something sort of hidden within DojoX...
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  • Adam L. Peller at Feb 9, 2012 at 10:37 am
    2012/2/9 Tom Trenka <ttrenka at gmail.com>
    PS As a personal opinion, one thing that I *do* thing should happen sooner
    than later is the promotion of dojox.gfx to the Dojo core. Having a way of
    doing cross-browser graphics should really be a core feature and not
    something sort of hidden within DojoX...
    In a world where all we have are peer packages and various distributions
    built from those packages, what would it mean to move something from dojox
    to core?

    Also, dojox.gfx aside, do we want to embrace SVG and make sure our "core"
    Dojo works well with it? To me, long term, that's more important than a
    graphics layer.

    -Adam
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  • Tom Trenka at Feb 9, 2012 at 10:42 am

    Also, dojox.gfx aside, do we want to embrace SVG and make sure our "core"
    Dojo works well with it? To me, long term, that's more important than a
    graphics layer.
    Do you mean things like the dom constructs work just as well with SVG as
    with HTML, or something else?
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  • Adam L. Peller at Feb 9, 2012 at 12:51 pm
    Mainly that, yes. Browser support for inline SVG is still fragile, but
    that seems to be where things are headed.

    2012/2/9 Tom Trenka <ttrenka at gmail.com>
    Also, dojox.gfx aside, do we want to embrace SVG and make sure our "core"
    Dojo works well with it? To me, long term, that's more important than a
    graphics layer.
    Do you mean things like the dom constructs work just as well with SVG as
    with HTML, or something else?

    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors
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  • Mike Wilcox at Feb 9, 2012 at 12:55 pm
    May I ask where you see that's where things are headed? My observation is it's all about canvas. I see hundreds of websites focusing on canvas, and hear almost nothing about SVG. In fact, I was thinking GFX's API may be outdated, since it loosely resembles SVG - and maybe it should more resemble canvas.

    Mike Wilcox
    http://clubajax.org
    mike at mikewilcox.net


    On Feb 9, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Adam L. Peller wrote:

    Mainly that, yes. Browser support for inline SVG is still fragile, but that seems to be where things are headed.

    2012/2/9 Tom Trenka <ttrenka at gmail.com>
    Also, dojox.gfx aside, do we want to embrace SVG and make sure our "core" Dojo works well with it? To me, long term, that's more important than a graphics layer.

    Do you mean things like the dom constructs work just as well with SVG as with HTML, or something else?

    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors


    _______________________________________________
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    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
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  • Tom Trenka at Feb 9, 2012 at 1:03 pm
    Let's not hijack the thread...a discussion of native SVG vs. gfx should be
    a new one.

    Mercy Buckets--
    Tom

    2012/2/9 Mike Wilcox <mike at mikewilcox.net>
    May I ask where you see that's where things are headed? My observation is
    it's all about canvas. I see hundreds of websites focusing on canvas, and
    hear almost nothing about SVG. In fact, I was thinking GFX's API may be
    outdated, since it loosely resembles SVG - and maybe it should more
    resemble canvas.

    Mike Wilcox
    http://clubajax.org
    mike at mikewilcox.net



    On Feb 9, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Adam L. Peller wrote:

    Mainly that, yes. Browser support for inline SVG is still fragile, but
    that seems to be where things are headed.

    2012/2/9 Tom Trenka <ttrenka at gmail.com>
    Also, dojox.gfx aside, do we want to embrace SVG and make sure our "core"
    Dojo works well with it? To me, long term, that's more important than a
    graphics layer.
    Do you mean things like the dom constructs work just as well with SVG as
    with HTML, or something else?

    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors
    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors



    _______________________________________________
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  • Mike Wilcox at Feb 9, 2012 at 1:10 pm
    Tom Trenka wrote: "PS As a personal opinion, one thing that I *do* thing should happen sooner than later is the promotion of dojox.gfx to the Dojo core."

    You hijacked your *own* thread sir!

    Mike Wilcox
    http://clubajax.org
    mike at mikewilcox.net


    On Feb 9, 2012, at 12:03 PM, Tom Trenka wrote:

    Let's not hijack the thread...a discussion of native SVG vs. gfx should be a new one.

    Mercy Buckets--
    Tom

    2012/2/9 Mike Wilcox <mike at mikewilcox.net>
    May I ask where you see that's where things are headed? My observation is it's all about canvas. I see hundreds of websites focusing on canvas, and hear almost nothing about SVG. In fact, I was thinking GFX's API may be outdated, since it loosely resembles SVG - and maybe it should more resemble canvas.

    Mike Wilcox
    http://clubajax.org
    mike at mikewilcox.net


    On Feb 9, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Adam L. Peller wrote:

    Mainly that, yes. Browser support for inline SVG is still fragile, but that seems to be where things are headed.

    2012/2/9 Tom Trenka <ttrenka at gmail.com>
    Also, dojox.gfx aside, do we want to embrace SVG and make sure our "core" Dojo works well with it? To me, long term, that's more important than a graphics layer.

    Do you mean things like the dom constructs work just as well with SVG as with HTML, or something else?

    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors


    _______________________________________________
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    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors

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  • Tom Trenka at Feb 9, 2012 at 2:13 pm
    Actually, I didn't; I was mentioning that I think gfx should be in the core
    distribution. Adam hijacked the thread ;)

    2012/2/9 Mike Wilcox <mike at mikewilcox.net>
    Tom Trenka wrote: "PS As a personal opinion, one thing that I *do* thing
    should happen sooner than later is the promotion of dojox.gfx to the Dojo
    core."

    You hijacked your *own* thread sir!

    Mike Wilcox
    http://clubajax.org
    mike at mikewilcox.net



    On Feb 9, 2012, at 12:03 PM, Tom Trenka wrote:

    Let's not hijack the thread...a discussion of native SVG vs. gfx should be
    a new one.

    Mercy Buckets--
    Tom

    2012/2/9 Mike Wilcox <mike at mikewilcox.net>
    May I ask where you see that's where things are headed? My observation is
    it's all about canvas. I see hundreds of websites focusing on canvas, and
    hear almost nothing about SVG. In fact, I was thinking GFX's API may be
    outdated, since it loosely resembles SVG - and maybe it should more
    resemble canvas.

    Mike Wilcox
    http://clubajax.org
    mike at mikewilcox.net



    On Feb 9, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Adam L. Peller wrote:

    Mainly that, yes. Browser support for inline SVG is still fragile, but
    that seems to be where things are headed.

    2012/2/9 Tom Trenka <ttrenka at gmail.com>
    Also, dojox.gfx aside, do we want to embrace SVG and make sure our
    "core" Dojo works well with it? To me, long term, that's more important
    than a graphics layer.
    Do you mean things like the dom constructs work just as well with SVG as
    with HTML, or something else?

    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors
    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors



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