FF3.6 is marked as EOL for April 24, before we release Dojo 1.8 And
actually when I start FF3.6 today it already says in big letters:
*
*
*URGENT!*
Your version of Firefox is no longer protected against online attacks.
Get the upgrade <http://www.mozilla.com/?WT.mc_id=upgrade&WT.mc_ev=click> -
it?s fast and free!


So, we talked about dropping support for FF3.6 in Dojo 1.9, but how about
dropping support in Dojo 1.8?

I mention this because I asked Kris for some new dojo/on features (see
http://bugs.dojotoolkit.org/ticket/14728) and it seems silly to spend
effort supporting EOL'd browsers.
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  • Christophe Jolif at Feb 7, 2012 at 6:51 am
    Well... during the phone meeting I raised that issue about supporting
    a browser while the browser implementors do not even support it
    anymore without getting much attention ;)

    But yes I'm still in favor of dropping FF3.6 for 1.8 ;)

    2012/2/7 Bill Keese <bill at dojotoolkit.org>:
    FF3.6 is marked as EOL for April 24, before we release Dojo 1.8 ? And
    actually when I start FF3.6 today it already says in big letters:

    URGENT!
    Your version of Firefox is no longer protected against online attacks.
    Get the upgrade - it?s fast and free!


    So, we talked about dropping support for FF3.6 in Dojo 1.9, but how about
    dropping support in Dojo 1.8?

    I mention this because I asked Kris for some new dojo/on features
    (see?http://bugs.dojotoolkit.org/ticket/14728) and it seems silly to spend
    effort supporting EOL'd browsers.

    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors


    --
    Christophe
  • Kenneth G. Franqueiro at Feb 7, 2012 at 8:38 am
    I expected we would treat FF 3.6 like IE6 - we don't cut it until 2.0,
    as anything else could be viewed as a 1.x back-compat regression. I
    suppose if Moz is officially EOLing it, we might have a bit more room to
    argue... (Heck, I thought 3.6 EOL'd a while ago, didn't realize they
    were even still supporting it.)

    At maximum, I expect we would focus on no more than 3.6, 10 (ESR), and
    whatever latest version is testable before 1.8 release.

    --Ken
    On 2/7/2012 6:51 AM, Christophe Jolif wrote:
    Well... during the phone meeting I raised that issue about supporting
    a browser while the browser implementors do not even support it
    anymore without getting much attention ;)

    But yes I'm still in favor of dropping FF3.6 for 1.8 ;)

    2012/2/7 Bill Keese <bill at dojotoolkit.org>:
    FF3.6 is marked as EOL for April 24, before we release Dojo 1.8 And
    actually when I start FF3.6 today it already says in big letters:

    URGENT!
    Your version of Firefox is no longer protected against online attacks.
    Get the upgrade - it?s fast and free!


    So, we talked about dropping support for FF3.6 in Dojo 1.9, but how about
    dropping support in Dojo 1.8?

    I mention this because I asked Kris for some new dojo/on features
    (see http://bugs.dojotoolkit.org/ticket/14728) and it seems silly to spend
    effort supporting EOL'd browsers.

    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors
  • Bill Keese at Feb 7, 2012 at 9:25 am
    Well, I see your argument, but we just don't define backwards-compatibility
    in that way. We've dropped support for lots of browser versions since
    Dojo 1.0: Safari 2, Safari 3, Safari 4, FF1.5, FF2, FF3, FF3.5, and Chrome
    1-12.

    On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 10:38 PM, Kenneth G. Franqueiro
    wrote:
    I expected we would treat FF 3.6 like IE6 - we don't cut it until 2.0,
    as anything else could be viewed as a 1.x back-compat regression. I
    suppose if Moz is officially EOLing it, we might have a bit more room to
    argue... (Heck, I thought 3.6 EOL'd a while ago, didn't realize they
    were even still supporting it.)

    At maximum, I expect we would focus on no more than 3.6, 10 (ESR), and
    whatever latest version is testable before 1.8 release.

    --Ken
    On 2/7/2012 6:51 AM, Christophe Jolif wrote:
    Well... during the phone meeting I raised that issue about supporting
    a browser while the browser implementors do not even support it
    anymore without getting much attention ;)

    But yes I'm still in favor of dropping FF3.6 for 1.8 ;)

    2012/2/7 Bill Keese <bill at dojotoolkit.org>:
    FF3.6 is marked as EOL for April 24, before we release Dojo 1.8 And
    actually when I start FF3.6 today it already says in big letters:

    URGENT!
    Your version of Firefox is no longer protected against online attacks.
    Get the upgrade - it?s fast and free!


    So, we talked about dropping support for FF3.6 in Dojo 1.9, but how
    about
    dropping support in Dojo 1.8?

    I mention this because I asked Kris for some new dojo/on features
    (see http://bugs.dojotoolkit.org/ticket/14728) and it seems silly to
    spend
    effort supporting EOL'd browsers.

    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors
    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors
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  • Dylan Schiemann at Feb 7, 2012 at 9:48 am
    We typically drop official support based on market share and pain to
    continue to support and test, not based on a browser vendor EOLing a
    product.

    Regards,
    - -Dylan

    on 2/7/12 7:25 AM (GMT-07:00) Bill Keese said the following:
    Well, I see your argument, but we just don't define
    backwards-compatibility in that way. We've dropped support for lots of
    browser versions since Dojo 1.0: Safari 2, Safari 3, Safari 4, FF1.5,
    FF2, FF3, FF3.5, and Chrome 1-12.

    On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 10:38 PM, Kenneth G. Franqueiro
    <kgf at dojotoolkit.org wrote:

    I expected we would treat FF 3.6 like IE6 - we don't cut it until 2.0,
    as anything else could be viewed as a 1.x back-compat regression. I
    suppose if Moz is officially EOLing it, we might have a bit more room to
    argue... (Heck, I thought 3.6 EOL'd a while ago, didn't realize they
    were even still supporting it.)

    At maximum, I expect we would focus on no more than 3.6, 10 (ESR), and
    whatever latest version is testable before 1.8 release.

    --Ken
    On 2/7/2012 6:51 AM, Christophe Jolif wrote:
    Well... during the phone meeting I raised that issue about supporting
    a browser while the browser implementors do not even support it
    anymore without getting much attention ;)

    But yes I'm still in favor of dropping FF3.6 for 1.8 ;)

    2012/2/7 Bill Keese <bill at dojotoolkit.org
    <mailto:bill at dojotoolkit.org>>:
    FF3.6 is marked as EOL for April 24, before we release Dojo 1.8 And
    actually when I start FF3.6 today it already says in big letters:

    URGENT!
    Your version of Firefox is no longer protected against online
    attacks.
    Get the upgrade - it?s fast and free!


    So, we talked about dropping support for FF3.6 in Dojo 1.9, but
    how about
    dropping support in Dojo 1.8?

    I mention this because I asked Kris for some new dojo/on features
    (see http://bugs.dojotoolkit.org/ticket/14728) and it seems silly
    to spend
    effort supporting EOL'd browsers.

    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    <mailto:dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org>
    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    <mailto:dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org>
    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors


    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors
  • Mike Wilcox at Feb 7, 2012 at 9:57 am
    Ouch. I looked it up and expected that FF 3.6 would be non-existent... it turns out it is still by far the most popular version of FF being used:

    http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version-US-monthly-201101-201201

    It looks like everyone is upgrading from FF to Chrome.

    Mike Wilcox
    http://clubajax.org
    mike at mikewilcox.net


    On Feb 7, 2012, at 8:48 AM, Dylan Schiemann wrote:

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    We typically drop official support based on market share and pain to
    continue to support and test, not based on a browser vendor EOLing a
    product.

    Regards,
    - -Dylan

    on 2/7/12 7:25 AM (GMT-07:00) Bill Keese said the following:
    Well, I see your argument, but we just don't define
    backwards-compatibility in that way. We've dropped support for lots of
    browser versions since Dojo 1.0: Safari 2, Safari 3, Safari 4, FF1.5,
    FF2, FF3, FF3.5, and Chrome 1-12.

    On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 10:38 PM, Kenneth G. Franqueiro
    <kgf at dojotoolkit.org wrote:

    I expected we would treat FF 3.6 like IE6 - we don't cut it until 2.0,
    as anything else could be viewed as a 1.x back-compat regression. I
    suppose if Moz is officially EOLing it, we might have a bit more room to
    argue... (Heck, I thought 3.6 EOL'd a while ago, didn't realize they
    were even still supporting it.)

    At maximum, I expect we would focus on no more than 3.6, 10 (ESR), and
    whatever latest version is testable before 1.8 release.

    --Ken
    On 2/7/2012 6:51 AM, Christophe Jolif wrote:
    Well... during the phone meeting I raised that issue about supporting
    a browser while the browser implementors do not even support it
    anymore without getting much attention ;)

    But yes I'm still in favor of dropping FF3.6 for 1.8 ;)

    2012/2/7 Bill Keese <bill at dojotoolkit.org
    <mailto:bill at dojotoolkit.org>>:
    FF3.6 is marked as EOL for April 24, before we release Dojo 1.8 And
    actually when I start FF3.6 today it already says in big letters:

    URGENT!
    Your version of Firefox is no longer protected against online
    attacks.
    Get the upgrade - it?s fast and free!


    So, we talked about dropping support for FF3.6 in Dojo 1.9, but
    how about
    dropping support in Dojo 1.8?

    I mention this because I asked Kris for some new dojo/on features
    (see http://bugs.dojotoolkit.org/ticket/14728) and it seems silly
    to spend
    effort supporting EOL'd browsers.

    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    <mailto:dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org>
    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    <mailto:dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org>
    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors


    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors
    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
    Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin)
    Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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    gXgAoJVhB26k1lVTdyzzi76UJAVs9wUL
    =XCd7
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
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  • Kris Zyp at Feb 7, 2012 at 10:15 am
    It looks stat counter is not currently parsing newer FF user agents (I
    think there is lot in the unknown line). W3Counter and W3Schools stats
    show that the newer versions of FF are much more popular:
    http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
    http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_firefox.asp
    Although I would think 3.6 is still popular enough (%4-5) to deserve
    support for 1.8.
    Thanks,
    Kris
    On 2/7/2012 7:57 AM, Mike Wilcox wrote:
    Ouch. I looked it up and expected that FF 3.6 would be non-existent... it turns out it is still by far the most popular version of FF being used:

    http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version-US-monthly-201101-201201

    It looks like everyone is upgrading from FF to Chrome.

    Mike Wilcox
    http://clubajax.org
    mike at mikewilcox.net


    On Feb 7, 2012, at 8:48 AM, Dylan Schiemann wrote:

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    We typically drop official support based on market share and pain to
    continue to support and test, not based on a browser vendor EOLing a
    product.

    Regards,
    - -Dylan

    on 2/7/12 7:25 AM (GMT-07:00) Bill Keese said the following:
    Well, I see your argument, but we just don't define
    backwards-compatibility in that way. We've dropped support for lots of
    browser versions since Dojo 1.0: Safari 2, Safari 3, Safari 4, FF1.5,
    FF2, FF3, FF3.5, and Chrome 1-12.

    On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 10:38 PM, Kenneth G. Franqueiro
    <kgf at dojotoolkit.orgwrote:

    I expected we would treat FF 3.6 like IE6 - we don't cut it until 2.0,
    as anything else could be viewed as a 1.x back-compat regression. I
    suppose if Moz is officially EOLing it, we might have a bit more room to
    argue... (Heck, I thought 3.6 EOL'd a while ago, didn't realize they
    were even still supporting it.)

    At maximum, I expect we would focus on no more than 3.6, 10 (ESR), and
    whatever latest version is testable before 1.8 release.

    --Ken
    On 2/7/2012 6:51 AM, Christophe Jolif wrote:
    Well... during the phone meeting I raised that issue about supporting
    a browser while the browser implementors do not even support it
    anymore without getting much attention ;)

    But yes I'm still in favor of dropping FF3.6 for 1.8 ;)

    2012/2/7 Bill Keese<bill at dojotoolkit.org
    <mailto:bill at dojotoolkit.org>>:
    FF3.6 is marked as EOL for April 24, before we release Dojo 1.8 And
    actually when I start FF3.6 today it already says in big letters:

    URGENT!
    Your version of Firefox is no longer protected against online
    attacks.
    Get the upgrade - it?s fast and free!


    So, we talked about dropping support for FF3.6 in Dojo 1.9, but
    how about
    dropping support in Dojo 1.8?

    I mention this because I asked Kris for some new dojo/on features
    (see http://bugs.dojotoolkit.org/ticket/14728) and it seems silly
    to spend
    effort supporting EOL'd browsers.

    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    <mailto:dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org>
    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    <mailto:dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org>
    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors


    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors
    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
    Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin)
    Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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    gXgAoJVhB26k1lVTdyzzi76UJAVs9wUL
    =XCd7
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors
    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors
  • Christophe Jolif at Feb 7, 2012 at 10:23 am
    My last 2 cents on the subject.

    Is someone here using FF 3.6? I'm asking because I do (mainly to make
    sure my work still works on 3.6), and now a lot of sites I visit
    (Google Docs, Flickr etc...) tells me that my browser is incompatible
    with their site. That to say that even major web applications / sites
    today are discontinuing FF 3.6 support. So I wonder who would like to
    build apps for it. And if they really want to nothing prevent them
    from using Dojo 1.7.
    On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Kris Zyp wrote:
    It looks stat counter is not currently parsing newer FF user agents (I
    think there is lot in the unknown line). W3Counter and W3Schools stats
    show that the newer versions of FF are much more popular:
    http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
    http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_firefox.asp
    Although I would think 3.6 is still popular enough (%4-5) to deserve
    support for 1.8.
    Thanks,
    Kris
    On 2/7/2012 7:57 AM, Mike Wilcox wrote:
    Ouch. I looked it up and expected that FF 3.6 would be non-existent... it turns out it is still by far the most popular version of FF being used:

    http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version-US-monthly-201101-201201

    It looks like everyone is upgrading from FF to Chrome.

    Mike Wilcox
    http://clubajax.org
    mike at mikewilcox.net


    On Feb 7, 2012, at 8:48 AM, Dylan Schiemann wrote:

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    We typically drop official support based on market share and pain to
    continue to support and test, not based on a browser vendor EOLing a
    product.

    Regards,
    - -Dylan

    on 2/7/12 7:25 AM (GMT-07:00) Bill Keese said the following:
    Well, I see your argument, but we just don't define
    backwards-compatibility in that way. ? We've dropped support for lots of
    browser versions since Dojo 1.0: Safari 2, Safari 3, Safari 4, FF1.5,
    FF2, FF3, FF3.5, and Chrome 1-12.

    On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 10:38 PM, Kenneth G. Franqueiro
    <kgf at dojotoolkit.org<mailto:kgf at dojotoolkit.org>> ?wrote:

    ? ? I expected we would treat FF 3.6 like IE6 - we don't cut it until 2.0,
    ? ? as anything else could be viewed as a 1.x back-compat regression. ?I
    ? ? suppose if Moz is officially EOLing it, we might have a bit more room to
    ? ? argue... ?(Heck, I thought 3.6 EOL'd a while ago, didn't realize they
    ? ? were even still supporting it.)

    ? ? At maximum, I expect we would focus on no more than 3.6, 10 (ESR), and
    ? ? whatever latest version is testable before 1.8 release.

    ? ? --Ken

    ? ? On 2/7/2012 6:51 AM, Christophe Jolif wrote:
    Well... during the phone meeting I raised that issue about supporting
    a browser while the browser implementors do not even support it
    anymore without getting much attention ;)

    But yes I'm still in favor of dropping FF3.6 for 1.8 ;)

    2012/2/7 Bill Keese<bill at dojotoolkit.org
    ? ? <mailto:bill at dojotoolkit.org>>:
    FF3.6 is marked as EOL for April 24, before we release Dojo 1.8 ? And
    actually when I start FF3.6 today it already says in big letters:

    URGENT!
    Your version of Firefox is no longer protected against online
    ? ? attacks.
    Get the upgrade - it?s fast and free!


    So, we talked about dropping support for FF3.6 in Dojo 1.9, but
    ? ? how about
    dropping support in Dojo 1.8?

    I mention this because I asked Kris for some new dojo/on features
    (see http://bugs.dojotoolkit.org/ticket/14728) and it seems silly
    ? ? to spend
    effort supporting EOL'd browsers.

    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    ? ? <mailto:dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org>
    ? ? _______________________________________________
    ? ? dojo-contributors mailing list
    ? ? dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    ? ? <mailto:dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org>
    ? ? http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors


    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors
    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
    Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin)
    Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

    iEYEARECAAYFAk8xObMACgkQ1E2HcBNypM47mACcC8l8zVxqfm3tiMsqKdWkPT+E
    gXgAoJVhB26k1lVTdyzzi76UJAVs9wUL
    =XCd7
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors
    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors
    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
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    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors


    --
    Christophe
  • Kris Zyp at Feb 7, 2012 at 10:53 am
    I don't know what are cutoff is, but it is worth pointing out that IE6
    is much less popular than FF3.6 and IE7 is even comparable to FF3.6 in
    usage (a little less in W3Schools, a little more in W3Counter), and
    certainly more effort to support. In terms of order of dropping support
    (assuming it is based on market share and pain as Dylan said) , I would
    think the order would be IE6, IE7, and then FF3.6. Shouldn't IE6 be the
    browser we should really be talking about dropping for 1.8 if anything,
    or am I missing something (I suppose IE's decay rate might be slower)?
    Kris
    On 2/7/2012 8:23 AM, Christophe Jolif wrote:
    My last 2 cents on the subject.

    Is someone here using FF 3.6? I'm asking because I do (mainly to make
    sure my work still works on 3.6), and now a lot of sites I visit
    (Google Docs, Flickr etc...) tells me that my browser is incompatible
    with their site. That to say that even major web applications / sites
    today are discontinuing FF 3.6 support. So I wonder who would like to
    build apps for it. And if they really want to nothing prevent them
    from using Dojo 1.7.

    On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Kris Zypwrote:
    It looks stat counter is not currently parsing newer FF user agents (I
    think there is lot in the unknown line). W3Counter and W3Schools stats
    show that the newer versions of FF are much more popular:
    http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
    http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_firefox.asp
    Although I would think 3.6 is still popular enough (%4-5) to deserve
    support for 1.8.
    Thanks,
    Kris
    On 2/7/2012 7:57 AM, Mike Wilcox wrote:
    Ouch. I looked it up and expected that FF 3.6 would be non-existent... it turns out it is still by far the most popular version of FF being used:

    http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version-US-monthly-201101-201201

    It looks like everyone is upgrading from FF to Chrome.

    Mike Wilcox
    http://clubajax.org
    mike at mikewilcox.net


    On Feb 7, 2012, at 8:48 AM, Dylan Schiemann wrote:

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    We typically drop official support based on market share and pain to
    continue to support and test, not based on a browser vendor EOLing a
    product.

    Regards,
    - -Dylan

    on 2/7/12 7:25 AM (GMT-07:00) Bill Keese said the following:
    Well, I see your argument, but we just don't define
    backwards-compatibility in that way. We've dropped support for lots of
    browser versions since Dojo 1.0: Safari 2, Safari 3, Safari 4, FF1.5,
    FF2, FF3, FF3.5, and Chrome 1-12.

    On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 10:38 PM, Kenneth G. Franqueiro
    <kgf at dojotoolkit.orgwrote:

    I expected we would treat FF 3.6 like IE6 - we don't cut it until 2.0,
    as anything else could be viewed as a 1.x back-compat regression. I
    suppose if Moz is officially EOLing it, we might have a bit more room to
    argue... (Heck, I thought 3.6 EOL'd a while ago, didn't realize they
    were even still supporting it.)

    At maximum, I expect we would focus on no more than 3.6, 10 (ESR), and
    whatever latest version is testable before 1.8 release.

    --Ken
    On 2/7/2012 6:51 AM, Christophe Jolif wrote:
    Well... during the phone meeting I raised that issue about supporting
    a browser while the browser implementors do not even support it
    anymore without getting much attention ;)

    But yes I'm still in favor of dropping FF3.6 for 1.8 ;)

    2012/2/7 Bill Keese<bill at dojotoolkit.org
    <mailto:bill at dojotoolkit.org>>:
    FF3.6 is marked as EOL for April 24, before we release Dojo 1.8 And
    actually when I start FF3.6 today it already says in big letters:

    URGENT!
    Your version of Firefox is no longer protected against online
    attacks.
    Get the upgrade - it?s fast and free!


    So, we talked about dropping support for FF3.6 in Dojo 1.9, but
    how about
    dropping support in Dojo 1.8?

    I mention this because I asked Kris for some new dojo/on features
    (see http://bugs.dojotoolkit.org/ticket/14728) and it seems silly
    to spend
    effort supporting EOL'd browsers.

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  • Christophe Jolif at Feb 7, 2012 at 11:08 am
    Kris,

    I agree IE6 should probably be out as well. Note that the difference
    at least for enterprise is that IE6 is still (at least in theory)
    supported by Microsoft (until 2014 if I well understand) while FF3.6
    is not anymore supported by Mozilla.
    On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:53 PM, Kris Zyp wrote:
    I don't know what are cutoff is, but it is worth pointing out that IE6 is
    much less popular than FF3.6 and IE7 is even comparable to FF3.6 in usage (a
    little less in W3Schools, a little more in W3Counter), and certainly more
    effort to support. In terms of order of dropping support (assuming it is
    based on market share and pain as Dylan said) , I would think the order
    would be IE6, IE7, and then FF3.6. Shouldn't IE6 be the browser we should
    really be talking about dropping for 1.8 if anything, or am I missing
    something (I suppose IE's decay rate might be slower)?
    Kris

    On 2/7/2012 8:23 AM, Christophe Jolif wrote:

    My last 2 cents on the subject.

    Is someone here using FF 3.6? I'm asking because I do (mainly to make
    sure my work still works on 3.6), and now a lot of sites I visit
    (Google Docs, Flickr etc...) tells me that my browser is incompatible
    with their site. That to say that even major web applications / sites
    today are discontinuing FF 3.6 support. So I wonder who would like to
    build apps for it. And if they really want to nothing prevent them
    from using Dojo 1.7.

    On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Kris Zyp<kzyp at dojotoolkit.org> ?wrote:
    It looks stat counter is not currently parsing newer FF user agents (I
    think there is lot in the unknown line). W3Counter and W3Schools stats
    show that the newer versions of FF are much more popular:
    http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
    http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_firefox.asp
    Although I would think 3.6 is still popular enough (%4-5) to deserve
    support for 1.8.
    Thanks,
    Kris
    On 2/7/2012 7:57 AM, Mike Wilcox wrote:

    Ouch. I looked it up and expected that FF 3.6 would be non-existent...
    it turns out it is still by far the most popular version of FF being used:

    http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version-US-monthly-201101-201201

    It looks like everyone is upgrading from FF to Chrome.

    Mike Wilcox
    http://clubajax.org
    mike at mikewilcox.net


    On Feb 7, 2012, at 8:48 AM, Dylan Schiemann wrote:

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    We typically drop official support based on market share and pain to
    continue to support and test, not based on a browser vendor EOLing a
    product.

    Regards,
    - -Dylan

    on 2/7/12 7:25 AM (GMT-07:00) Bill Keese said the following:
    Well, I see your argument, but we just don't define
    backwards-compatibility in that way. ? We've dropped support for lots
    of
    browser versions since Dojo 1.0: Safari 2, Safari 3, Safari 4, FF1.5,
    FF2, FF3, FF3.5, and Chrome 1-12.

    On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 10:38 PM, Kenneth G. Franqueiro
    <kgf at dojotoolkit.org<mailto:kgf at dojotoolkit.org>> ? ?wrote:

    ? ? I expected we would treat FF 3.6 like IE6 - we don't cut it until
    2.0,
    ? ? as anything else could be viewed as a 1.x back-compat regression.
    ?I
    ? ? suppose if Moz is officially EOLing it, we might have a bit more
    room to
    ? ? argue... ?(Heck, I thought 3.6 EOL'd a while ago, didn't realize
    they
    ? ? were even still supporting it.)

    ? ? At maximum, I expect we would focus on no more than 3.6, 10 (ESR),
    and
    ? ? whatever latest version is testable before 1.8 release.

    ? ? --Ken

    ? ? On 2/7/2012 6:51 AM, Christophe Jolif wrote:
    Well... during the phone meeting I raised that issue about supporting
    a browser while the browser implementors do not even support it
    anymore without getting much attention ;)

    But yes I'm still in favor of dropping FF3.6 for 1.8 ;)

    2012/2/7 Bill Keese<bill at dojotoolkit.org
    ? ? <mailto:bill at dojotoolkit.org>>:
    FF3.6 is marked as EOL for April 24, before we release Dojo 1.8
    And
    actually when I start FF3.6 today it already says in big letters:

    URGENT!
    Your version of Firefox is no longer protected against online
    ? ? attacks.
    Get the upgrade - it?s fast and free!


    So, we talked about dropping support for FF3.6 in Dojo 1.9, but
    ? ? how about
    dropping support in Dojo 1.8?

    I mention this because I asked Kris for some new dojo/on features
    (see http://bugs.dojotoolkit.org/ticket/14728) and it seems silly
    ? ? to spend
    effort supporting EOL'd browsers.

    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    ? ? <mailto:dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org>
    ? ? _______________________________________________
    ? ? dojo-contributors mailing list
    ? ? dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    ? ? <mailto:dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org>
    ? ? http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors


    _______________________________________________
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    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors
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    iEYEARECAAYFAk8xObMACgkQ1E2HcBNypM47mACcC8l8zVxqfm3tiMsqKdWkPT+E
    gXgAoJVhB26k1lVTdyzzi76UJAVs9wUL
    =XCd7
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    --
    Christophe
  • Kitson Kelly at Feb 7, 2012 at 12:00 pm
    Also, don't forget (as Bill pointed out to me) in corporate environments,
    there are a lot of IE8 and IE9 forced into IE7 compatibility mode. Parsing
    of UA doesn't reflect that factor. So I think putting IE7 on the pile to
    unsupport should be tempered with supporting IE9 in Compatibility mode.
    On 7 February 2012 15:53, Kris Zyp wrote:

    I don't know what are cutoff is, but it is worth pointing out that IE6
    is much less popular than FF3.6 and IE7 is even comparable to FF3.6 in
    usage (a little less in W3Schools, a little more in W3Counter), and
    certainly more effort to support. In terms of order of dropping support
    (assuming it is based on market share and pain as Dylan said) , I would
    think the order would be IE6, IE7, and then FF3.6. Shouldn't IE6 be the
    browser we should really be talking about dropping for 1.8 if anything,
    or am I missing something (I suppose IE's decay rate might be slower)?
    Kris
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  • Colin Snover at Feb 7, 2012 at 12:31 pm
    Global browser usage statistics are a reasonable mechanism for deciding
    when to drop support, regardless of whether or not there are
    corporations writing intranet apps using EmulateIE7 mode. If those users
    want to continue to dedicate resources to a dead platform (as they are
    by forcing EmulateIE7), they simply don't need to upgrade to a newer
    version of Dojo, and that's totally OK. :)
    On 07/02/2012 11:00, Kitson Kelly wrote:
    Also, don't forget (as Bill pointed out to me) in corporate
    environments, there are a lot of IE8 and IE9 forced into
    IE7 compatibility mode. Parsing of UA doesn't reflect that factor.
    So I think putting IE7 on the pile to unsupport should be tempered
    with supporting IE9 in Compatibility mode.

    On 7 February 2012 15:53, Kris Zyp <kzyp at dojotoolkit.org
    wrote:

    I don't know what are cutoff is, but it is worth pointing out that IE6
    is much less popular than FF3.6 and IE7 is even comparable to FF3.6 in
    usage (a little less in W3Schools, a little more in W3Counter), and
    certainly more effort to support. In terms of order of dropping
    support
    (assuming it is based on market share and pain as Dylan said) , I
    would
    think the order would be IE6, IE7, and then FF3.6. Shouldn't IE6
    be the
    browser we should really be talking about dropping for 1.8 if
    anything,
    or am I missing something (I suppose IE's decay rate might be slower)?
    Kris



    _______________________________________________
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    --
    Colin Snover
    http://zetafleet.com

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  • Bill Keese at Feb 7, 2012 at 4:18 pm
    2012/2/8 Colin Snover <dojo-contributors at zetafleet.com>
    Global browser usage statistics are a reasonable mechanism for deciding
    when to drop support, regardless of whether or not there are corporations
    writing intranet apps using EmulateIE7 mode.
    For the record, I wasn't talking about corporations that "write intranet
    apps using EmulateIE7 mode", but the fact that IE8 defaults to IE7
    emulation mode when the URL goes to an intranet address.
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  • Colin Snover at Feb 7, 2012 at 11:28 am
    It parses the UAs just fine, but when there have been 7 releases in less
    than a year, they run out of lines for the graph and those versions show
    up aggregated in Unknown. Using a shorter time interval works just fine.
    Also I don?t know why you linked to US stats, Mike; Dojo is relevant in
    many more places than that.

    See: http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version-ww-daily-20120108-20120206

    Globally, IE7, Safari 5.1, and Firefox 3.6 have roughly the same number
    of users each.
    On 07/02/2012 09:15, Kris Zyp wrote:
    It looks stat counter is not currently parsing newer FF user agents (I
    think there is lot in the unknown line). W3Counter and W3Schools stats
    show that the newer versions of FF are much more popular:
    http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
    http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_firefox.asp
    Although I would think 3.6 is still popular enough (%4-5) to deserve
    support for 1.8.
    Thanks,
    Kris
    On 2/7/2012 7:57 AM, Mike Wilcox wrote:
    Ouch. I looked it up and expected that FF 3.6 would be non-existent...
    it turns out it is still by far the most popular version of FF being used:
    http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version-US-monthly-201101-201201

    It looks like everyone is upgrading from FF to Chrome.

    Mike Wilcox
    http://clubajax.org
    mike at mikewilcox.net



    On Feb 7, 2012, at 8:48 AM, Dylan Schiemann wrote:
    We typically drop official support based on market share and pain to
    continue to support and test, not based on a browser vendor EOLing a
    product.

    Regards,
    -Dylan

    on 2/7/12 7:25 AM (GMT-07:00) Bill Keese said the following:
    Well, I see your argument, but we just don't define
    backwards-compatibility in that way. We've dropped support for
    lots of
    browser versions since Dojo 1.0: Safari 2, Safari 3, Safari 4, FF1.5,
    FF2, FF3, FF3.5, and Chrome 1-12.

    On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 10:38 PM, Kenneth G. Franqueiro
    <kgf at dojotoolkit.orgwrote:

    I expected we would treat FF 3.6 like IE6 - we don't cut it
    until 2.0,
    as anything else could be viewed as a 1.x back-compat
    regression. I
    suppose if Moz is officially EOLing it, we might have a bit
    more room to
    argue... (Heck, I thought 3.6 EOL'd a while ago, didn't
    realize they
    were even still supporting it.)

    At maximum, I expect we would focus on no more than 3.6, 10
    (ESR), and
    whatever latest version is testable before 1.8 release.

    --Ken
    On 2/7/2012 6:51 AM, Christophe Jolif wrote:
    Well... during the phone meeting I raised that issue about
    supporting
    a browser while the browser implementors do not even support it
    anymore without getting much attention ;)

    But yes I'm still in favor of dropping FF3.6 for 1.8 ;)

    2012/2/7 Bill Keese<bill at dojotoolkit.org
    <mailto:bill at dojotoolkit.org>>:
    FF3.6 is marked as EOL for April 24, before we release Dojo
    1.8 And
    actually when I start FF3.6 today it already says in big letters:

    URGENT!
    Your version of Firefox is no longer protected against online
    attacks.
    Get the upgrade - it?s fast and free!


    So, we talked about dropping support for FF3.6 in Dojo 1.9, but
    how about
    dropping support in Dojo 1.8?

    I mention this because I asked Kris for some new dojo/on features
    (see http://bugs.dojotoolkit.org/ticket/14728) and it seems silly
    to spend
    effort supporting EOL'd browsers.

    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    <mailto:dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org>
    _______________________________________________
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    Colin Snover
    http://zetafleet.com

    --
    Colin Snover
    http://zetafleet.com


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  • Mike Wilcox at Feb 7, 2012 at 11:40 am
    I looked at both US and global to see if there was a disparity and then sent the wrong link.

    FWIW, I recall the cut-off being somewhere around 1-2% market share - with IE6 being a bit higher because of the... lack of love.

    Mike Wilcox
    http://clubajax.org
    mike at mikewilcox.net


    On Feb 7, 2012, at 10:28 AM, Colin Snover wrote:

    It parses the UAs just fine, but when there have been 7 releases in less than a year, they run out of lines for the graph and those versions show up aggregated in Unknown. Using a shorter time interval works just fine. Also I don?t know why you linked to US stats, Mike; Dojo is relevant in many more places than that.

    See: http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version-ww-daily-20120108-20120206

    Globally, IE7, Safari 5.1, and Firefox 3.6 have roughly the same number of users each.
    On 07/02/2012 09:15, Kris Zyp wrote:
    It looks stat counter is not
    currently parsing newer FF user agents (I
    think there is lot in the unknown line). W3Counter and
    W3Schools stats
    show that the newer versions of FF are much more popular:
    http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
    http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_firefox.asp
    Although I would think 3.6 is still popular enough (%4-5) to deserve
    support for 1.8.
    Thanks,
    Kris

    On 2/7/2012 7:57 AM, Mike Wilcox wrote:

    Ouch. I looked it up and expected that FF 3.6 would be
    non-existent... it turns out it is still by far the most popular
    version of FF being used:
    http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version-US-monthly-201101-201201
    It looks like everyone is upgrading from FF to Chrome.
    Mike Wilcox
    mike at mikewilcox.net
    On Feb 7, 2012, at 8:48 AM, Dylan Schiemann wrote:
    We typically drop official support based on market share and pain to
    continue to support and test, not based on a browser vendor EOLing a
    product.

    Regards,
    -Dylan

    on 2/7/12 7:25 AM (GMT-07:00) Bill Keese said the following:
    Well, I see your argument, but we just don't define
    backwards-compatibility in that way. We've dropped support for lots of
    browser versions since Dojo 1.0: Safari 2, Safari 3, Safari 4, FF1.5,
    FF2, FF3, FF3.5, and Chrome 1-12.

    On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 10:38 PM, Kenneth G. Franqueiro
    <kgf at dojotoolkit.orgwrote:

    I expected we would treat FF 3.6 like IE6 - we don't cut it until 2.0,
    as anything else could be viewed as a 1.x back-compat regression. I
    suppose if Moz is officially EOLing it, we might have a bit more room to
    argue... (Heck, I thought 3.6 EOL'd a while ago, didn't realize they
    were even still supporting it.)

    At maximum, I expect we would focus on no more than 3.6, 10 (ESR), and
    whatever latest version is testable before 1.8 release.

    --Ken
    On 2/7/2012 6:51 AM, Christophe Jolif wrote:
    Well... during the phone meeting I raised that issue about supporting
    a browser while the browser implementors do not even support it
    anymore without getting much attention ;)

    But yes I'm still in favor of dropping FF3.6 for 1.8 ;)

    2012/2/7 Bill Keese<bill at dojotoolkit.org
    <mailto:bill at dojotoolkit.org>>:
    FF3.6 is marked as EOL for April 24, before we release Dojo 1.8 And
    actually when I start FF3.6 today it already says in big letters:

    URGENT!
    Your version of Firefox is no longer protected against online
    attacks.
    Get the upgrade - it?s fast and free!


    So, we talked about dropping support for FF3.6 in Dojo 1.9, but
    how about
    dropping support in Dojo 1.8?

    I mention this because I asked Kris for some new dojo/on features
    (see http://bugs.dojotoolkit.org/ticket/14728) and it seems silly
    to spend
    effort supporting EOL'd browsers.

    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org
    <mailto:dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org>
    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
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    <mailto:dojo-contributors at mail.dojotoolkit.org>
    http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors


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    --
    Colin Snover
    http://zetafleet.com

    --
    Colin Snover
    http://zetafleet.com

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