Hi all,

Yesterday I brought up the idea of reorganizing the forums on the website;
basically people are posting a lot of questions to the wrong place, without
following basic etiquette rules, and without ever trying to use the search
feature to find the answers to their questions. So, after discussing it
with Dustin this morning, we've decided that we're going to reorganize the
forums to look like the following:


1. Dojo Core
- Support
- General Discussion
- Developers
2. Dijit
- Support
- General Discussion
- Developers
3. DojoX
- Support
- General Discussion
- Developers
4. Dojo Foundation
- News and Announcements
- Events
- General Discussion
- Showcase
- Production Apps
- Jobs
- SoC 2007

The goal is make it *very* clear where someone should be posting questions,
and to get Dijit Support as far up the page as possible (since that's where
the majority of traffic is). You'll notice that we're moving most of what's
in the first forum down to the Foundation; neither Dustin nor I are really
satisifed with that name, we're open to suggestions.

There's a ticket filed for this (http://trac.dojotoolkit.org/ticket/3130),
so if you have any other ideas/comments, make them there. We're going to
try to do this ASAP, but Dustin will spend some quality time migrating
threads from the current forums to the new ones, which may take a bit.

Once we have these re-organized, I'm sure Karl and I would like it if you
started actually looking through the forums to answer any questions you
can. Most of the traffic from dojo-interest is really moving to the forums,
and while some of us have been good about checking the forums for questions
they can answer, more participation would be A Good Thing(tm).

Regarding SoC...supposedly we can do sub-forums if we need it, but I'm
thinking that we can create a set of sticky posts for progress reports on
each of our 4 projects, and then use the rest of the forum for other
messages and what not. Rob, any other thoughts on that?

trt
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Search Discussions

  • Alex Russell at May 24, 2007 at 1:38 pm

    On Thursday 24 May 2007 8:07 am, Tom Trenka wrote:
    Hi all,

    Yesterday I brought up the idea of reorganizing the forums on the
    website; basically people are posting a lot of questions to the wrong
    place, without following basic etiquette rules, and without ever
    trying to use the search feature to find the answers to their
    questions. So, after discussing it with Dustin this morning, we've
    decided that we're going to reorganize the forums to look like the
    following:
    It still seems like there's a lot of cruft here:
    1. Dojo Core
    - Support
    - General Discussion
    - Developers

    2. Dijit
    - Support
    - General Discussion
    - Developers
    3. DojoX
    - Support
    - General Discussion
    - Developers
    Why are we mirroring these broad topics down a level? That someone wants
    help w/ on bit or another doesn't effing matter. They just want an
    answer. And from the perspective of someone providing help, the more
    forums you make me troll, the less likely I am to pay attention to ANY
    of them.

    The proposed structure maps the system model onto the users, not the
    other way around. That's as much of a bug as the current layout.
    4. Dojo Foundation
    - News and Announcements
    - Events
    - General Discussion
    - Showcase
    - Production Apps
    - Jobs
    - SoC 2007
    Yeah, this is also wrong. If we're going to have more top-level forums,
    we should have a top-levels for:

    * Showcase (cool dojo apps)
    - help users show off. That's huge
    * "Help!"
    This *might* be a container for "Core", "Dijit", "Dojox" and "General"
    topics, but I would suggest we should only break things up that way
    AFTER we prove that a single "Help!" forum doesn't work.
    * Dojo Dev
    Core and Dijit and Dojox stuff might get broken out here too. That
    said, I'm almost not convinced that this should be happening in the
    general user-oriented forum area.
    * Off Topic
    - Folks should have a place to blow off steam and a catch-all for
    things that don't fit other places
    * "But does it scale?"
    - production apps, high-end stuff
    * Announcements
    - foundation stuff, jobs, etc. can go here. Perhaps w/ sub-forums
    should the traffic get high enough on a particular topic.

    That's it.
    The goal is make it *very* clear where someone should be posting
    questions, and to get Dijit Support as far up the page as possible
    (since that's where the majority of traffic is).
    It's still buried way to far and there are too many choices to make
    before you even post. No wonder people post in the "wrong" places. We
    haven't made it easy or intuitive.

    What we're doing in Core and Dijit should guide this too: give people
    fewer, better choices.

    Regards
    You'll notice that
    we're moving most of what's in the first forum down to the
    Foundation; neither Dustin nor I are really satisifed with that name,
    we're open to suggestions.

    There's a ticket filed for this
    (http://trac.dojotoolkit.org/ticket/3130), so if you have any other
    ideas/comments, make them there. We're going to try to do this ASAP,
    but Dustin will spend some quality time migrating threads from the
    current forums to the new ones, which may take a bit.

    Once we have these re-organized, I'm sure Karl and I would like it if
    you started actually looking through the forums to answer any
    questions you can. Most of the traffic from dojo-interest is really
    moving to the forums, and while some of us have been good about
    checking the forums for questions they can answer, more participation
    would be A Good Thing(tm).

    Regarding SoC...supposedly we can do sub-forums if we need it, but
    I'm thinking that we can create a set of sticky posts for progress
    reports on each of our 4 projects, and then use the rest of the forum
    for other messages and what not. Rob, any other thoughts on that?

    trt
    --
    Alex Russell
    alex at sitepen.com A99F 8785 F491 D5FD 04D7 ACD9 4158 FFDF 2894 6876
    alex at dojotoolkit.org BE03 E88D EABB 2116 CC49 8259 CF78 E242 59C3 9723
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  • Peter e higgins at May 24, 2007 at 9:01 am

    Why are we mirroring these broad topics down a level? That someone wants
    help w/ on bit or another doesn't effing matter. They just want an
    answer. And from the perspective of someone providing help, the more
    forums you make me troll, the less likely I am to pay attention to ANY
    of them.

    The proposed structure maps the system model onto the users, not the
    other way around. That's as much of a bug as the current layout.
    I agree with Alex here. Part of the confusion come from thinking "Dojo"
    means "the Dojo Toolkit", eg: "everything Dojo" ... at a first glance, one
    wouldn't know the difference between Dijit and a Dojo base function, or
    something in Dojox. Then, you get into things that are in both dijit and
    dojox [which contentpane should I use? dijit.layout.contentpane
    dojox.layout.contentpane, i mean, not yeeet, but you know.) and whould a post
    get moved if it was determined you should be using the dojox-version?
    No. "Support" is support. If anything, break support into sections based on
    function: IO/RPC/Layout or, as stated, "HELP!" ...


    Regards,
    Peter Higgins
  • Tom Trenka at May 24, 2007 at 2:32 pm
    Normally I would agree with both of you but the patterns of usage on the
    current forums are suggesting otherwise. It's a lot easier to recognize that
    if you're developing with a "dijit" namespace, that the matching forum would
    be the place to post.

    Notice that the first topic in each is always "Support". I'd be more than
    happy to change that to "Help!"--I don't think we're attached to names at
    all (so long as they mean what they should). And I think Alex brings up an
    excellent point--but I think that point supports working the forums by
    project as opposed to a single "Help!" forum. You don't want to troll, and
    that's fine. But you'll notice that few of the actual contributors are
    looking through the forums and actually giving help--and one of the main
    reasons why is bandwidth. How many of us would really be willing to scan a
    single Help forum? How many of us really respond to dojo-interest? In the
    end, that's all a single Help forum will be. As a perfect example, I would
    think that Alex would be scanning the Dojo Core forum most of the
    time--since most of it is his. Same with Scott. But then I'd expect Bill
    and Adam to be looking through Dijit, etc.

    By at least splitting up the help by project, we narrow down the choices
    that people make. It's not a huge barrier by any means. Unlike the current
    org, where you end up having to go down something like 12 topics before
    running across where you need to post for widget support.

    " * "Help!"
    This *might* be a container for "Core", "Dijit", "Dojox" and
    "General"
    topics, but I would suggest we should only break things up that way
    AFTER we prove that a single "Help!" forum doesn't work."

    That's basically what we are dealing with right now. People aren't looking
    too closely at where; Karl and I are moving threads left and right. Getting
    the obvious topic (i.e. project) up front and center, and then getting the
    "Help!" front and center after that will (IMHO) help that a LOT. Peter
    knows what I mean; if he had greater access he'd be doing a lot of what Karl
    and I are doing already. In fact, that's a large part of the motivation for
    re-arranging. We're having issues with:

    1. calls for help posted in the wrong spot--75% of the posts are for
    widgets, and they end up in lots of different places.
    2. double/triple posting
    3. no one bothering to search
    4. rules of etiquette essentially ignored.

    Anyways...the point here is that help is front and center based on project,
    which will (eventually) be reflected by the top level namespace you're
    working with. I don't know that it gets any simpler than that.

    Oh--the last forum, that's totally up in the air; we're trying to preserve
    what we already have now to a certain extent, clean up some others (there's
    no reason SoC needs an entire forum, for instance), and any suggestions
    (like the OT) are more than welcome. We're not happy about calling it
    "Foundation", so if there's any suggestions on that score...

    trt

    On 5/24/07, peter e higgins wrote:

    Why are we mirroring these broad topics down a level? That someone wants
    help w/ on bit or another doesn't effing matter. They just want an
    answer. And from the perspective of someone providing help, the more
    forums you make me troll, the less likely I am to pay attention to ANY
    of them.

    The proposed structure maps the system model onto the users, not the
    other way around. That's as much of a bug as the current layout.
    I agree with Alex here. Part of the confusion come from thinking "Dojo"
    means "the Dojo Toolkit", eg: "everything Dojo" ... at a first glance, one
    wouldn't know the difference between Dijit and a Dojo base function, or
    something in Dojox. Then, you get into things that are in both dijit and
    dojox [which contentpane should I use? dijit.layout.contentpane
    dojox.layout.contentpane, i mean, not yeeet, but you know.) and whould a
    post
    get moved if it was determined you should be using the dojox-version?
    No. "Support" is support. If anything, break support into sections based
    on
    function: IO/RPC/Layout or, as stated, "HELP!" ...


    Regards,
    Peter Higgins
    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at dojotoolkit.org
    http://dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors
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  • Owen Williams at May 24, 2007 at 2:18 pm
    Something else to consider as well, we're about to put out a release
    that changes everything. Folks who are working on 0.9 are probably
    not as concerned about 0.4 stuff, but will likely be a sizeable chunk
    of folks on 0.4 for quite a while. Having some sort of
    acknowledgement of that in the forum structure seems warranted to me.

    Finally, one other category that might be interesting is "Porting
    from 0.4 - 0.9", as that will likely have its own set of lore that is
    applicable to a relatively small group of folks.

    cheers
    O

    -------------------------
    We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -- Mohandas K.
    Gandhi

    On May 24, 2007, at 10:38 AM, Alex Russell wrote:
    On Thursday 24 May 2007 8:07 am, Tom Trenka wrote:
    Hi all,

    Yesterday I brought up the idea of reorganizing the forums on the
    website; basically people are posting a lot of questions to the wrong
    place, without following basic etiquette rules, and without ever
    trying to use the search feature to find the answers to their
    questions. So, after discussing it with Dustin this morning, we've
    decided that we're going to reorganize the forums to look like the
    following:
    It still seems like there's a lot of cruft here:
    1. Dojo Core
    - Support
    - General Discussion
    - Developers

    2. Dijit
    - Support
    - General Discussion
    - Developers
    3. DojoX
    - Support
    - General Discussion
    - Developers
    Why are we mirroring these broad topics down a level? That someone
    wants
    help w/ on bit or another doesn't effing matter. They just want an
    answer. And from the perspective of someone providing help, the more
    forums you make me troll, the less likely I am to pay attention to ANY
    of them.

    The proposed structure maps the system model onto the users, not the
    other way around. That's as much of a bug as the current layout.
    4. Dojo Foundation
    - News and Announcements
    - Events
    - General Discussion
    - Showcase
    - Production Apps
    - Jobs
    - SoC 2007
    Yeah, this is also wrong. If we're going to have more top-level
    forums,
    we should have a top-levels for:

    * Showcase (cool dojo apps)
    - help users show off. That's huge
    * "Help!"
    This *might* be a container for "Core", "Dijit", "Dojox" and
    "General"
    topics, but I would suggest we should only break things up that way
    AFTER we prove that a single "Help!" forum doesn't work.
    * Dojo Dev
    Core and Dijit and Dojox stuff might get broken out here too. That
    said, I'm almost not convinced that this should be happening in the
    general user-oriented forum area.
    * Off Topic
    - Folks should have a place to blow off steam and a catch-all for
    things that don't fit other places
    * "But does it scale?"
    - production apps, high-end stuff
    * Announcements
    - foundation stuff, jobs, etc. can go here. Perhaps w/ sub-forums
    should the traffic get high enough on a particular topic.

    That's it.
    The goal is make it *very* clear where someone should be posting
    questions, and to get Dijit Support as far up the page as possible
    (since that's where the majority of traffic is).
    It's still buried way to far and there are too many choices to make
    before you even post. No wonder people post in the "wrong" places. We
    haven't made it easy or intuitive.

    What we're doing in Core and Dijit should guide this too: give people
    fewer, better choices.

    Regards
    You'll notice that
    we're moving most of what's in the first forum down to the
    Foundation; neither Dustin nor I are really satisifed with that name,
    we're open to suggestions.

    There's a ticket filed for this
    (http://trac.dojotoolkit.org/ticket/3130), so if you have any other
    ideas/comments, make them there. We're going to try to do this ASAP,
    but Dustin will spend some quality time migrating threads from the
    current forums to the new ones, which may take a bit.

    Once we have these re-organized, I'm sure Karl and I would like it if
    you started actually looking through the forums to answer any
    questions you can. Most of the traffic from dojo-interest is really
    moving to the forums, and while some of us have been good about
    checking the forums for questions they can answer, more participation
    would be A Good Thing(tm).

    Regarding SoC...supposedly we can do sub-forums if we need it, but
    I'm thinking that we can create a set of sticky posts for progress
    reports on each of our 4 projects, and then use the rest of the forum
    for other messages and what not. Rob, any other thoughts on that?

    trt
    --
    Alex Russell
    alex at sitepen.com A99F 8785 F491 D5FD 04D7 ACD9 4158 FFDF 2894 6876
    alex at dojotoolkit.org BE03 E88D EABB 2116 CC49 8259 CF78 E242 59C3 9723
    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at dojotoolkit.org
    http://dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors
  • Dustin Machi at May 24, 2007 at 2:35 pm

    Alex Russell wrote:
    On Thursday 24 May 2007 8:07 am, Tom Trenka wrote:
    Hi all,

    Yesterday I brought up the idea of reorganizing the forums on the
    website; basically people are posting a lot of questions to the wrong
    place, without following basic etiquette rules, and without ever
    trying to use the search feature to find the answers to their
    questions. So, after discussing it with Dustin this morning, we've
    decided that we're going to reorganize the forums to look like the
    following:
    It still seems like there's a lot of cruft here:
    1. Dojo Core
    - Support
    - General Discussion
    - Developers

    2. Dijit
    - Support
    - General Discussion
    - Developers
    3. DojoX
    - Support
    - General Discussion
    - Developers
    Why are we mirroring these broad topics down a level? That someone wants
    help w/ on bit or another doesn't effing matter. They just want an
    answer. And from the perspective of someone providing help, the more
    forums you make me troll, the less likely I am to pay attention to ANY
    of them.
    I'll have to say I disagree here. We aren't mirroring the broad topics,
    we are making the topics not broad by saying here is Dijit's support
    forum, here is Dojo's support forum, etc. The whole point of the forums
    is to split this conversation up so you don't have to follow all of
    them. If we are going to collapse back down to a single forum for
    support across all project then my vote is to scrap forums altogether
    and just stick with mailing lists as that is essentially what we'll
    have. If we want to drop the "general discussion" from each of these
    major areas I'm fine with that. The idea that Tom and I were going with
    is this:

    - Support is where you get on a the area (core, dijit, dojox)
    - General discussion is where anyone can discuss direction,
    make news annoucnements, etc
    - Developers is the equivalent of dojo-contrib, but split per project area.
    4. Dojo Foundation
    - News and Announcements
    - Events
    - General Discussion
    - Showcase
    - Production Apps
    - Jobs
    - SoC 2007
    Yeah, this is also wrong. If we're going to have more top-level forums,
    we should have a top-levels for:

    * Showcase (cool dojo apps)
    - help users show off. That's huge
    I'm fine with putting this at a top level.
    * "Help!"
    This *might* be a container for "Core", "Dijit", "Dojox" and "General"
    topics, but I would suggest we should only break things up that way
    AFTER we prove that a single "Help!" forum doesn't work.
    Isn't this what we have now (except not a single forum)? Furthermore a
    single topic in my mind is the worst thing we could do given all
    options. Too much traffic happens and only the posts on the first page
    will ever be seen. If we want to go to a single forum for support, then
    my vote is scrap forums altogether and just stick to mailing lists. It
    seems like this approach is imposing our desires (developers/helpers)
    onto the structure to make it easier for us to follow, but not to the
    beneifit of others.
    * Dojo Dev
    Core and Dijit and Dojox stuff might get broken out here too. That
    said, I'm almost not convinced that this should be happening in the
    general user-oriented forum area.
    To me the primary purpose of having dojo-contrib be invite only was to
    limit the amount of traffic that happens there by keeping people looking
    for support from "escalating" their requests by posting to dojo-contrib
    instead of dojo-interest. This is not an issue on the forums and anyone
    can/should be able to partake in a discussion especially since we can
    simply move entire threads to where they belong if they are not in the
    appropriate place.
    * Off Topic
    - Folks should have a place to blow off steam and a catch-all for
    things that don't fit other places
    * "But does it scale?"
    - production apps, high-end stuff
    * Announcements
    - foundation stuff, jobs, etc. can go here. Perhaps w/ sub-forums
    should the traffic get high enough on a particular topic.
    I'm less concerned with where these relatively low traffic items go and
    and can probalby be convinced of changes here. Perhaps foundation was
    just the wrong word to use and we need a better catchall.

    That's it.
    The goal is make it *very* clear where someone should be posting
    questions, and to get Dijit Support as far up the page as possible
    (since that's where the majority of traffic is).
    It's still buried way to far and there are too many choices to make
    before you even post. No wonder people post in the "wrong" places. We
    haven't made it easy or intuitive.

    What we're doing in Core and Dijit should guide this too: give people
    fewer, better choices.
    Disagree here. Its very easy. I'm using Dijit and i need support. I
    go to the dijit support forum. I'm opposed to a single catch all
    support forum and I think if you saw what that would look like you would
    be as well. I thin the problems we currently face have more to do with
    the fact that our current set of forums is out of date given that we now
    have the three dojotoolkit projects dojo core, dijit, and dojox and that
    the ordering on the page of the forums is wrong. If we moved the support
    section up to the top instead of the other way around, most requests
    would end up in the general support forum instead of the general
    discussion forum, but stil not end up in the dijit forum. Thats my
    thoughts anyway.

    Dustin
  • Alex Russell at May 24, 2007 at 2:55 pm
    [ big snip ]
    It's still buried way to far and there are too many choices to make
    before you even post. No wonder people post in the "wrong" places.
    We haven't made it easy or intuitive.

    What we're doing in Core and Dijit should guide this too: give
    people fewer, better choices.
    Disagree here. Its very easy. I'm using Dijit and i need support.
    I go to the dijit support forum. I'm opposed to a single catch all
    support forum and I think if you saw what that would look like you
    would be as well. I thin the problems we currently face have more to
    do with the fact that our current set of forums is out of date given
    that we now have the three dojotoolkit projects dojo core, dijit, and
    dojox and that the ordering on the page of the forums is wrong. If we
    moved the support section up to the top instead of the other way
    around, most requests would end up in the general support forum
    instead of the general discussion forum, but stil not end up in the
    dijit forum. Thats my thoughts anyway.
    I think the distinction you're getting here cuts to the core of the
    debate:

    are people "using Dijit" or are they using Dojo (Dijit and Dojox
    inclusive) to build an app?

    I side with the latter view. If most of us don't, I'll acquiesce to a
    deeper forum layout, but I don't talk to many clients or users who are
    interested "in the widget system". They see "Dojo". That's not going to
    change just because we made the whole thing a bit easier to explain and
    talk about, I think.

    Regards

    --
    Alex Russell
    alex at sitepen.com A99F 8785 F491 D5FD 04D7 ACD9 4158 FFDF 2894 6876
    alex at dojotoolkit.org BE03 E88D EABB 2116 CC49 8259 CF78 E242 59C3 9723
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  • Dustin Machi at May 24, 2007 at 3:08 pm

    I think the distinction you're getting here cuts to the core of the
    debate:

    are people "using Dijit" or are they using Dojo (Dijit and Dojox
    inclusive) to build an app?
    I agree that its the latter view, but most people are getting
    help/support on a particular aspect when they ask a question. I'll also
    put some more thought into this. I'm not trying to be close minded
    about this issue, I just dont' believe a single support forum is a
    workable solution. I think it will end up being less useful than the
    mailing list and you know how difficult that can be.

    Dustin
  • Tom Trenka at May 24, 2007 at 3:10 pm
    [more snip :)]

    I think the distinction you're getting here cuts to the core of the
    debate:

    are people "using Dijit" or are they using Dojo (Dijit and Dojox
    inclusive) to build an app?

    I side with the latter view. If most of us don't, I'll acquiesce to a
    deeper forum layout, but I don't talk to many clients or users who are
    interested "in the widget system". They see "Dojo". That's not going to
    change just because we made the whole thing a bit easier to explain and
    talk about, I think.

    I don't disagree with what you're saying, but the overwhelming majority of
    the questions we get are fairly specific in terms of *what* someone is
    dealing with; for instance, they may be working on a full app that uses
    Dojo, Dijit and part of DojoX, but the actual question may be related to,
    say, dijit.ContentPane. It's kind of rare that we get larger architectural
    questions like what you've suggested--and I think people who are at that
    point will usually take the extra second or so to figure out where to ask a
    question.

    Really, it's figuring out the lesser of evils. I totally understand where
    you're coming from on this but at the same time Dustin has a point too.
    Part of the original idea of having the forums in the first place was to
    help people "self-filter"; doing this kind of cleanup I think is just a
    natural consequence of review (i.e. we had one way, we're seeing what the
    problems with it are, and now we're addressing it).

    trt
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  • Karl Tiedt at May 24, 2007 at 3:37 pm
    Whatever we do... I would be against naming a sub forum the same in 3
    different forums... IE...

    dijit->General Discussion
    dojo->General Discussion

    make them Dijit Discussion and Dojo Discussion or atleast uniquify
    (new word!) them in some way.

    -Karl
  • Tom Trenka at May 24, 2007 at 3:44 pm
    Can you make comments to that effect on the ticket? We want to keep track of
    things like this on the trac ticket, so that when Dustin has a chance to do
    this, it's all in one place.

    http://trac.dojotoolkit.org/ticket/3130

    trt
    On 5/24/07, Karl Tiedt wrote:

    Whatever we do... I would be against naming a sub forum the same in 3
    different forums... IE...

    dijit->General Discussion
    dojo->General Discussion

    make them Dijit Discussion and Dojo Discussion or atleast uniquify
    (new word!) them in some way.

    -Karl
    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at dojotoolkit.org
    http://dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors
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  • Jon Sykes at May 24, 2007 at 3:54 pm
    Wouldn't it be better to have a discussion forum, that contains dojo,
    dijit and dojox sub forums.

    That way, if you have a question that seems general or related to all
    sub sections you can post in the parent forum.

    I used to be a huge proponent of forums rather than mailing lists,
    but I have to say, the only way I think this will work is if you shut
    down the mailing list and force forum usage.

    I know that Bill commented a while back that most of the key people
    seem to spend more time on the mailing lists than on the forums, so
    the forums were less effective.

    I know I've looked there once or twice but I always come back to the
    mailing list as the main location of information and smarts.
    On May 24, 2007, at 3:37 PM, Karl Tiedt wrote:

    Whatever we do... I would be against naming a sub forum the same in 3
    different forums... IE...

    dijit->General Discussion
    dojo->General Discussion

    make them Dijit Discussion and Dojo Discussion or atleast uniquify
    (new word!) them in some way.

    -Karl
    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at dojotoolkit.org
    http://dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors
  • Tom Trenka at May 24, 2007 at 4:00 pm

    On 5/24/07, Jon Sykes wrote:
    Wouldn't it be better to have a discussion forum, that contains dojo,
    dijit and dojox sub forums.

    The current organization is (somewhat) like this, and all we're finding is
    that people are posting either to General Support or the first forum that
    remotely looks like it may be relevant.

    That way, if you have a question that seems general or related to all
    sub sections you can post in the parent forum.

    I used to be a huge proponent of forums rather than mailing lists,
    but I have to say, the only way I think this will work is if you shut
    down the mailing list and force forum usage.

    The forum traffic is up a lot more than you'd think; I'd give a guesstimate
    that for every 1 message sent to dojo-interest, 4 topics are posted in the
    forums now (really roughly). I would have liked a shutdown of the lists as
    well, but it looks like most people are migrating on thier own. At some
    point Dustin did want to send out a few emails saying "go use the forums";
    it just hasn't been done yet.

    I know that Bill commented a while back that most of the key people
    seem to spend more time on the mailing lists than on the forums, so
    the forums were less effective.

    I think he was referring to the contributors list more than anything else,
    and he's right; we do tend to stick with the contrib list more. Personally,
    I think we could go either way with it. But one nice thing about the
    contrib list is that it makes sure everything is visible to all
    contributors, and for us it works. Not sure support (mostly support) is the
    same.

    I know I've looked there once or twice but I always come back to the
    mailing list as the main location of information and smarts.

    That's because you have full access :) Most people don't and won't...

    trt
    On May 24, 2007, at 3:37 PM, Karl Tiedt wrote:

    Whatever we do... I would be against naming a sub forum the same in 3
    different forums... IE...

    dijit->General Discussion
    dojo->General Discussion

    make them Dijit Discussion and Dojo Discussion or atleast uniquify
    (new word!) them in some way.

    -Karl
    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at dojotoolkit.org
    http://dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors
    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at dojotoolkit.org
    http://dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors
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  • Alex Russell at May 24, 2007 at 6:08 pm

    On Thursday 24 May 2007 1:00 pm, Tom Trenka wrote:
    On 5/24/07, Jon Sykes wrote:
    Wouldn't it be better to have a discussion forum, that contains
    dojo, dijit and dojox sub forums.
    The current organization is (somewhat) like this, and all we're
    finding is that people are posting either to General Support or the
    first forum that remotely looks like it may be relevant.
    ...shouldn't that be telling us something?

    Regards

    --
    Alex Russell
    alex at sitepen.com A99F 8785 F491 D5FD 04D7 ACD9 4158 FFDF 2894 6876
    alex at dojotoolkit.org BE03 E88D EABB 2116 CC49 8259 CF78 E242 59C3 9723
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  • Tom Trenka at May 24, 2007 at 6:10 pm
    Yeah--we need to move Dijit support way the hell up on the list.

    trt

    PS. I hate VML.
    On 5/24/07, Alex Russell wrote:
    On Thursday 24 May 2007 1:00 pm, Tom Trenka wrote:
    On 5/24/07, Jon Sykes wrote:
    Wouldn't it be better to have a discussion forum, that contains
    dojo, dijit and dojox sub forums.
    The current organization is (somewhat) like this, and all we're
    finding is that people are posting either to General Support or the
    first forum that remotely looks like it may be relevant.
    ...shouldn't that be telling us something?

    Regards

    --
    Alex Russell
    alex at sitepen.com A99F 8785 F491 D5FD 04D7 ACD9 4158 FFDF 2894 6876
    alex at dojotoolkit.org BE03 E88D EABB 2116 CC49 8259 CF78 E242 59C3 9723

    _______________________________________________
    dojo-contributors mailing list
    dojo-contributors at dojotoolkit.org
    http://dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-contributors

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  • Dustin Machi at May 24, 2007 at 4:05 pm

    Jon Sykes wrote:
    Wouldn't it be better to have a discussion forum, that contains dojo,
    dijit and dojox sub forums.
    Thats basically what we have now, just would need to be updated for the
    new projects. This is what I indicated I think is the real problem in
    my earlier email.
    That way, if you have a question that seems general or related to all
    sub sections you can post in the parent forum.
    Well the parent in this case is only a container, not a holder of messages.
    I used to be a huge proponent of forums rather than mailing lists,
    but I have to say, the only way I think this will work is if you shut
    down the mailing list and force forum usage.

    I know that Bill commented a while back that most of the key people
    seem to spend more time on the mailing lists than on the forums, so
    the forums were less effective.
    I think this only holds true for the dojo-contributors. I think that
    the contributors only do the discussions on the mailing list. Much of
    the interest traffic has already migrated manually. We are down from
    peaks of > 100 messages per day on dojo interest, do around 10 on average.
    I know I've looked there once or twice but I always come back to the
    mailing list as the main location of information and smarts.
    It will of course take a while for the collective stored knowledge of
    the forums to catch up to 3 years of collective discussions on the
    mailing lists.

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