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Whats the plan for EPEL i686 / EL7 ? Does anyone know if there is even
going to be a multilib attempt or is everything going to stay x86_64 clean ?


- KB


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  • Manuel Wolfshant at Jan 24, 2014 at 10:26 pm

    On 01/25/2014 12:13 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
    Hi

    Whats the plan for EPEL i686 / EL7 ? Does anyone know if there is even
    going to be a multilib attempt or is everything going to stay x86_64 clean ?
    they build for x86_64 and ppc64 only,
  • Karanbir Singh at Jan 24, 2014 at 10:29 pm

    On 01/24/2014 10:26 PM, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:
    On 01/25/2014 12:13 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
    Hi

    Whats the plan for EPEL i686 / EL7 ? Does anyone know if there is even
    going to be a multilib attempt or is everything going to stay x86_64 clean ?
    they build for x86_64 and ppc64 only,

    So then the question is - what is the process to enable i686 there ( or,
    do we then need to own all of EPEL - atleast some subset ) locally if we
    are going to attempt a i686 CentOS build ?


    - KB




    --
    Karanbir Singh
    +44-207-0999389 | http://www.karan.org/ | twitter.com/kbsingh
    GnuPG Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc
  • Stephen John Smoogen at Jan 24, 2014 at 10:42 pm

    On 24 January 2014 15:29, Karanbir Singh wrote:

    On 01/24/2014 10:26 PM, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:
    On 01/25/2014 12:13 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
    Hi

    Whats the plan for EPEL i686 / EL7 ? Does anyone know if there is even
    going to be a multilib attempt or is everything going to stay x86_64
    clean ?
    they build for x86_64 and ppc64 only,
    So then the question is - what is the process to enable i686 there ( or,
    do we then need to own all of EPEL - atleast some subset ) locally if we
    are going to attempt a i686 CentOS build ?

    - KB
    EPEL is built against the binaries from Red Hat Enterprise Linux so the
    architectures we have supported in the past have been only the ones they
    support (x86_64, i686, ppc64) with EL7 we are currently focusing on x86_64
    and ppc64. I do not know at this time what issues we would need to get a
    CentOS tree in our build system.





    --
    Karanbir Singh
    +44-207-0999389 | http://www.karan.org/ | twitter.com/kbsingh
    GnuPG Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc
    _______________________________________________
    CentOS-devel mailing list
    CentOS-devel at centos.org
    http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel





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    Stephen J Smoogen.
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  • Todd Rinaldo at Jan 24, 2014 at 11:00 pm

    On Jan 24, 2014, at 4:29 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote:

    On 01/24/2014 10:26 PM, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:
    On 01/25/2014 12:13 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
    Hi

    Whats the plan for EPEL i686 / EL7 ? Does anyone know if there is even
    going to be a multilib attempt or is everything going to stay x86_64 clean ?
    they build for x86_64 and ppc64 only,
    So then the question is - what is the process to enable i686 there ( or,
    do we then need to own all of EPEL - atleast some subset ) locally if we
    are going to attempt a i686 CentOS build ?

    - KB

    Could I ask what the use case is for i386 support? I know that the pointers are smaller but memory is cheap. Is this a speed or a hardware or a can it be done goal?


    Todd
  • Stephen John Smoogen at Jan 24, 2014 at 11:32 pm
    On 24 January 2014 16:00, Todd Rinaldo wrote:

    On Jan 24, 2014, at 4:29 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
    On 01/24/2014 10:26 PM, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:
    On 01/25/2014 12:13 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
    Hi

    Whats the plan for EPEL i686 / EL7 ? Does anyone know if there is even
    going to be a multilib attempt or is everything going to stay x86_64
    clean ?
    they build for x86_64 and ppc64 only,
    So then the question is - what is the process to enable i686 there ( or,
    do we then need to own all of EPEL - atleast some subset ) locally if we
    are going to attempt a i686 CentOS build ?

    - KB
    Could I ask what the use case is for i386 support? I know that the
    pointers are smaller but memory is cheap. Is this a speed or a hardware or
    a can it be done goal?
    There are several items I see i686 support being needed:


    1) Memory is not cheap in cloud and hosted environments. Especially in
    cloud where you might be firing up a thousand hosts at a time.
    2) Multiple Virtual Machines don't do well in the transition from 32 bit to
    64 bit in that their memory usage doesn't go up by *2 but can be ^2
    depending on the workload. Python is a perfect example of this but there
    are cases in java and other 'virtual machine' environments where it happens.
    3) As nice as having i686 compat libraries are for some commercial apps you
    end up needing a lot more than what is provided by the OS. This really
    comes up when you have to run a mixed set of commercial binaries that need
    something that only EL7 provides but also needs stuff that EL6 had. Thus
    you end up needing i686 everything.


    --
    Stephen J Smoogen.
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  • Manuel Wolfshant at Jan 24, 2014 at 11:37 pm

    On 01/25/2014 01:32 AM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:


    On 24 January 2014 16:00, Todd Rinaldo <toddr at cpanel.net
    wrote:


    On Jan 24, 2014, at 4:29 PM, Karanbir Singh <mail-lists at karan.org
    wrote:
    On 01/24/2014 10:26 PM, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:
    On 01/25/2014 12:13 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
    Hi

    Whats the plan for EPEL i686 / EL7 ? Does anyone know if there
    is even
    going to be a multilib attempt or is everything going to stay
    x86_64 clean ?
    they build for x86_64 and ppc64 only,
    So then the question is - what is the process to enable i686
    there ( or,
    do we then need to own all of EPEL - atleast some subset )
    locally if we
    are going to attempt a i686 CentOS build ?

    - KB
    Could I ask what the use case is for i386 support? I know that the
    pointers are smaller but memory is cheap. Is this a speed or a
    hardware or a can it be done goal?


    There are several items I see i686 support being needed:

    1) Memory is not cheap in cloud and hosted environments. Especially in
    cloud where you might be firing up a thousand hosts at a time.
    2) Multiple Virtual Machines don't do well in the transition from 32
    bit to 64 bit in that their memory usage doesn't go up by *2 but can
    be ^2 depending on the workload. Python is a perfect example of this
    but there are cases in java and other 'virtual machine' environments
    where it happens.
    3) As nice as having i686 compat libraries are for some commercial
    apps you end up needing a lot more than what is provided by the OS.
    This really comes up when you have to run a mixed set of commercial
    binaries that need something that only EL7 provides but also needs
    stuff that EL6 had. Thus you end up needing i686 everything.
    for what is worth I have some _expensive_ EDA tools from Incisive which
    bundle 64bit binaries in the supposedly 32bit toolchain as well as an
    IBM tool which requires a 32bit OS lib in its _64_bit toolchain....


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  • Karanbir Singh at Jan 25, 2014 at 12:02 am

    On 01/24/2014 11:32 PM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
    There are several items I see i686 support being needed:

    Then there is the case where we need to build large chunks of 32bit code
    to satisfy the requires for the multilib components in x86_64 as well.


    So it might end up being an easy win to extend that, wrap the installer
    around the repo and bob's your uncle. Now, why and where people are
    going to use it is upto them, and I am hoping that the entire 32bit tree
    becomes community run ( the builds so far, definitely have been )


    - KB




    --
    Karanbir Singh
    +44-207-0999389 | http://www.karan.org/ | twitter.com/kbsingh
    GnuPG Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc
  • Ljubomir Ljubojevic at Jan 24, 2014 at 11:33 pm

    On 01/25/2014 12:00 AM, Todd Rinaldo wrote:
    On Jan 24, 2014, at 4:29 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
    On 01/24/2014 10:26 PM, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:
    On 01/25/2014 12:13 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
    Hi

    Whats the plan for EPEL i686 / EL7 ? Does anyone know if there is even
    going to be a multilib attempt or is everything going to stay x86_64 clean ?
    they build for x86_64 and ppc64 only,
    So then the question is - what is the process to enable i686 there ( or,
    do we then need to own all of EPEL - atleast some subset ) locally if we
    are going to attempt a i686 CentOS build ?

    - KB
    Could I ask what the use case is for i386 support? I know that the pointers are smaller but memory is cheap. Is this a speed or a hardware or a can it be done goal?

    Todd

    As I can see, so far, RHEL 7 has minimum hardware requirements very
    close to 6.x, at least for the Desktop/Workstation use.


    In developing countries there is still lots of 32-bit hardware that will
    not be thrown away just because 64-bit is better. If there is no 32-bit
    version, all of those using 32-bit systems now will either stay with 6.x
    or move to Something that provides 32-bit distro version like Ubuntu. I
    expect that hardware will be around for another 3-5 years, just until
    RHEL 8 is out.


    Also, Embedded systems mostly have 32-bit processors, as far as I know,
    not needing 64-bit ones, so it would be nice to use CentOS on them, not
    some other distro.








    --
    Ljubomir Ljubojevic
    (Love is in the Air)
    PL Computers
    Serbia, Europe


    StarOS, Mikrotik and CentOS/RHEL/Linux consultant
  • Manuel Wolfshant at Jan 24, 2014 at 11:39 pm

    On 01/25/2014 01:33 AM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:
    On 01/25/2014 12:00 AM, Todd Rinaldo wrote:
    On Jan 24, 2014, at 4:29 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
    On 01/24/2014 10:26 PM, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:
    On 01/25/2014 12:13 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
    Hi

    Whats the plan for EPEL i686 / EL7 ? Does anyone know if there is even
    going to be a multilib attempt or is everything going to stay x86_64 clean ?
    they build for x86_64 and ppc64 only,
    So then the question is - what is the process to enable i686 there ( or,
    do we then need to own all of EPEL - atleast some subset ) locally if we
    are going to attempt a i686 CentOS build ?

    - KB
    Could I ask what the use case is for i386 support? I know that the pointers are smaller but memory is cheap. Is this a speed or a hardware or a can it be done goal?

    Todd
    As I can see, so far, RHEL 7 has minimum hardware requirements very
    close to 6.x, at least for the Desktop/Workstation use.

    In developing countries there is still lots of 32-bit hardware that will
    not be thrown away just because 64-bit is better. If there is no 32-bit
    version, all of those using 32-bit systems now will either stay with 6.x
    or move to Something that provides 32-bit distro version like Ubuntu. I
    expect that hardware will be around for another 3-5 years, just until
    RHEL 8 is out.
    +1

    Also, Embedded systems mostly have 32-bit processors, as far as I know,
    not needing 64-bit ones, so it would be nice to use CentOS on them, not
    some other distro.
    +1 as well. So far I had to run linaro on all my ARM boards.
  • Les Mikesell at Jan 24, 2014 at 11:46 pm

    On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:39 PM, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:

    Also, Embedded systems mostly have 32-bit processors, as far as I know,
    not needing 64-bit ones, so it would be nice to use CentOS on them, not
    some other distro.
    +1 as well. So far I had to run linaro on all my ARM boards.

    There's probably also still a case for LTSP - PXE booting thin clients
    with an image from the server - and the ability to use older machines
    as the clients. Even the PAE requirement of 6.x was problematic for
    that.


    --
        Les Mikesell
           lesmikesell at gmail.com
  • Ljubomir Ljubojevic at Jan 24, 2014 at 11:59 pm

    On 01/25/2014 12:46 AM, Les Mikesell wrote:
    On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:39 PM, Manuel Wolfshant
    wrote:
    Also, Embedded systems mostly have 32-bit processors, as far as I know,
    not needing 64-bit ones, so it would be nice to use CentOS on them, not
    some other distro.
    +1 as well. So far I had to run linaro on all my ARM boards.
    There's probably also still a case for LTSP - PXE booting thin clients
    with an image from the server - and the ability to use older machines
    as the clients. Even the PAE requirement of 6.x was problematic for
    that.
    +1


    --
    Ljubomir Ljubojevic
    (Love is in the Air)
    PL Computers
    Serbia, Europe


    StarOS, Mikrotik and CentOS/RHEL/Linux consultant
  • Ljubomir Ljubojevic at Jan 24, 2014 at 11:59 pm

    On 01/25/2014 12:39 AM, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:
    On 01/25/2014 01:33 AM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote:
    On 01/25/2014 12:00 AM, Todd Rinaldo wrote:
    On Jan 24, 2014, at 4:29 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
    On 01/24/2014 10:26 PM, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:
    On 01/25/2014 12:13 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:
    Hi

    Whats the plan for EPEL i686 / EL7 ? Does anyone know if there is even
    going to be a multilib attempt or is everything going to stay x86_64 clean ?
    they build for x86_64 and ppc64 only,
    So then the question is - what is the process to enable i686 there ( or,
    do we then need to own all of EPEL - atleast some subset ) locally if we
    are going to attempt a i686 CentOS build ?

    - KB
    Could I ask what the use case is for i386 support? I know that the pointers are smaller but memory is cheap. Is this a speed or a hardware or a can it be done goal?

    Todd
    As I can see, so far, RHEL 7 has minimum hardware requirements very
    close to 6.x, at least for the Desktop/Workstation use.

    In developing countries there is still lots of 32-bit hardware that will
    not be thrown away just because 64-bit is better. If there is no 32-bit
    version, all of those using 32-bit systems now will either stay with 6.x
    or move to Something that provides 32-bit distro version like Ubuntu. I
    expect that hardware will be around for another 3-5 years, just until
    RHEL 8 is out. +1
    Also, Embedded systems mostly have 32-bit processors, as far as I know,
    not needing 64-bit ones, so it would be nice to use CentOS on them, not
    some other distro.
    +1 as well. So far I had to run linaro on all my ARM boards.

    ARM are another matter.


    But Alix boards for example use x86 AMD Geode LX CPU ("All that should
    be required is a kernel patched to emulate the nopl instruction in
    software. The Geode LX has everything required for i686 except that
    instruction."), etc.








    --
    Ljubomir Ljubojevic
    (Love is in the Air)
    PL Computers
    Serbia, Europe


    StarOS, Mikrotik and CentOS/RHEL/Linux consultant

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