In article <btubno$bd8k6$1 at ID-46268.news.uni-berlin.de>,
Derek wrote:
I would not dismiss C++ (or even vanilla C) outright. I strongly
suggest starting in Python and looking to C and C++ when you have good
reason -- that is, when those languages will let you do something that
Python is less than than stellar at: large applications, system
software, performance-critical applications, embedded programming,
I contest the proposition that "Python is less than stellar at
large applications ...", and, in particular, that C++ is super-
ior there. I recognize you're not alone in that; for me, though,
large-scale programming is one of Python's *strengths*.

I don't have a good decision mechanism to propose. Trial by
ordeal (and most large-team projects fit in that category) seems
as apt as any.

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business: http://www.Phaseit.net

From http Mon Jan 12 22:46:38 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 12 Jan 2004 13:46:38 -0800
Subject: C++ bad-mouthing (was: Why learn Python ??)
References: <40029dad$0$28706$a729d347@news.telepac.pt>
Message-ID: <7xeku496wx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) writes:
I'd say don't bother with C++ unless you're working on a big
multi-person project. Its design will make no sense to you unless
you've faced the problems that come up in those projects. Otherwise
it's a big mess.
And if you *are* working on a big multi-person project, and you
choose C++, you're likely to end up with ... a big mess.
C++ was motivated by the problems faced by big projects written in C.
I'm talking about stuff like telephone switches with hundreds of
programmers and millions of lines of code. Even with very competent
designers and managers, those projects usually ran amuck. C++ gives
some real help in keeping projects like that functioning, if the
programmers and managers know what they're doing. If they don't know
what they're doing (as is the case in most projects), C++ isn't that
likely to help and may make the problems worse.

But if you've lived through the multitudinous nightmares of projects
like that, and you then read Stroustrup's book about C++, on just
about every page you'll see some feature described and you'll
recognize the specific nightmare that inspired it. If you haven't
experienced those nightmares yourself, I can't be sure but I think the
feature descriptions will just seem like feature descriptions and
you won't understand the real reasons why they're there.

I think the OP's list should also have included Java, which is sort of
a modernized, "discount" version of C++.

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