On 9/8/2015 12:59 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
There are two discussions going on in the issue tracker about
deprecating some modules and it has led to the inevitable discussion of
Python 2/3 compatibility (I'm not even going to bother mentioning the
issue #s as this thread is not about the modules specifically but module
deprecation in general). Because I'm tired of rehashing the same
discussion every time a module deprecation comes up I would like to make
an official decision that we can follow any time we decide to deprecate
a module.

Would you consider the 'official decision' as applying to idlelib
modules? The issue here is not especially related to 2.7. PEP 434
formalized the idea that idlelib is mostly private, but acknowledged
that there might be unauthorized module uses here and there. The first
example is removing idlelib.idlever, now unused by Idle itself (#21499).

The approaches to module deprecation I have seen are:
1. Nothing changes to the deprecation process; you deprecate a module
and remove it in one to two releases
2. Deprecate the module but with no plans for removal until Python 2.7
reaches its EOL (I have been calling this Python 4)

For either 1 or 2, the 2.7 code should get a py3 warning.

3. Document the deprecation but no actual code deprecation

Number 3 creates a discrepancy between code and doc. This is normally
considered a bug, and might be seen as such by someone reading both
unless a comment were inserted into the code.

I'm personally in the #2 camp. I want users to be fully aware that the
module in question is not being updated and possibly not even getting
non-critical bugfixes, but it's still there in Python 3 in order to make
sure that you can have code which straddles Python 2 & 3 more easily.

There will be people who convert after 2020, but the final 3.x before
removal will always be available. I also see this as the best of
imperfect choices.

I don't like #1 because when the module exists in python 2.7 as it makes
transitioning from Python 2 a bit harder. Leaving code in the stdlib as
deprecated isn't going to kill us, especially if we make it clear the
code only exists for transitioning purposes and you very well may have
to work around any bugs you come across (and yes, this means changing my
stance for the formatter module's deprecation).

Idlelib currently has about 6 module-naming conventions, and it was
omitted from the 3.0 renaming. Even without an immediate mass PEP8
rename (#24225), which would help Idle maintenance, new files from
refactoring and ttk conversions will result in a large number of
eventually unused old files. I would prefer to remove them before 2020.

I don't like #3 because if you have an API memorized or you copied some
code you found online you very well may not realize a module is
deprecated. It's not difficult to silence a deprecation warning and you
can make it so that even if you use -Werror your deprecated module
imports continue to work without throwing an exception while all other
deprecations do throw an exception.

Whatever decision we come to I will update PEP 4 and then personally go
through the various deprecated modules in Python 3.6 and tweak them as
necessary to follow whatever policy we come up with.

Terry Jan Reedy

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grouppython-dev @
postedSep 8, '15 at 4:59p
activeSep 11, '15 at 10:39p



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