Hi Leo,
On Sunday 22 May 2011 21:39:13 Leo Lapworth wrote:

Please direct any replies to this to me off-list, to save the list
from off topic.
Sorry, but I'm replying to the list, so everyone will know what I think. There
are no secrets in a society. This is not "off-topic" here. Please either reply
to the list, or don't reply to me at all.
On 19 May 2011 07:53, Shlomi Fish wrote:
I've received quite a lot of heat from people here and elsewhere
Not from me... whilst I have issues with perl-begin.org: design,
layout, easy of use, tone etc - I applaud your efforts in creating and
maintaining it which is why I have never discussed it with you.
I wasn't referring to you as someone who criticised me referring people to
http://perl-begin.org/ .

If you want, you can enumerate your issues with it to me in your reply.
Personally I would like the Perl core documentation and faq updated in
preference to any website (where possible).
Well, some things are out-of-the-scope for both of them: XML, Web
(Catalyst/etc.), date-and-time, IRC, databases, bio-info, SSH/Telnet, parsing
using RecDescent / Bottom-up parsers, etc. Furthermore, I'm giving much more
choice in http://perl-begin.org/ , in case someone is unhappy from what is
offered from the Perl core docs, which is absent from it. See for example what
happened at:


Finally, I should note that the Perl 5 FAQ is:

1. Split into several sections - which is a big no-no:


2. I may be effectively prevented from contributing to it due to political

3. Is written in POD and so is less expressive than XHTML or DocBook 5/XML.
I would like to point out the following...
1. The licence of most of http://perl-begin.org/ is
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/ which allows for almost
unlimited use given attribution (parts of perl-begin are Public Domain ,
GFDL and recently we mirrorred the CC-by-nc-sa Modern Perl book by

This is while the licence of learn.perl.org is
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/ which is the most
restrictive of the Creative Commons licences, and prevents a lot of use.
No one has ever had enough of an issue with this to discuss it with me/us
so this isn't really an issue until that point.
Well, I have a lot of issue with the l.p.o licensing. It sucks. Will you
please change it to something like CC-by or CC-by-sa?

Furthermore, I should note that a restrictive licence can manifest itself
simply in inaction. For example, Israel has published some of its defense
photos under an "All rights reserved." licence, and they are afraid to put it
under a CC licence to prevent abuse. And guess what? People are not abusing
it, but they are not asking them for a legitimate use either.

On the other hand, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera has released many
photos and videoclips under CC-by or CC-by-sa and people are sharing and
building them like crazy, making Israel look bad.

4. Perl-Begin is maintained in an open Mercurial repository on
http://bitbucket.org/ , which everyone can "fork", "clone" and contribute
https://github.com/ranguard/learn-perl-org/ (not live yet, doing work on it
now) https://github.com/ranguard/installing-perl/

Because I could not get traction on my original plan for learn.perl.org I
am approaching it from a different angle which I hope will make it easier
for people to help with.
OK, we were explicitly prohibited from creating a git/hg/etc. repository of
the l.p.o sources, and everything was supposed to be coordinated with the
official svn repository (which required a lot of red tape to get something
there.). Who allowed you to create a github repository for that, and why
wasn't it announced on
http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/perl-org-patches ?
5. Perl-Begin has been actively maintained since its inception. On the
other hand, learn.perl.org has been suffering from a lot of neglect and
often years on end passed without activity.
Agreed - I kind'a had a lot of other perl sites which needed love first...
https://github.com/ranguard/learn-perl-org/commits/master/ I'm working
on it now!
OK, thanks.
I don't intend learn.perl.org to become a huge repository of information
(see idea about core perldocs/faq being updated instead). I'm focusing on
the very first steps (installing, tools, where to find more
information) and will see
how it goes from there.
Recently, an OOP tutorial covering Moose was rejected from the Perl 5 core,
because Moose is not a core module. How do you expect to get the rest of the
information on http://perl-begin.org/ there?


Shlomi Fish

Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
My Favourite FOSS - http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/favourite/

Oh! I wish you could see the look on his face! Actually, I would have also
liked to see the look on his face, but just then I woke up from the dream.
-- "The Enemy and how I Helped to Fight It"

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .

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postedMay 19, '11 at 6:53a
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