Forwarding the message from Simon...

Shlomi Fish

---------- Forwarded Message ----------

Subject: Re: New Website for Perl Beginners: perlmeme.org
Date: Tuesday 04 October 2005 10:33
From: Simon Taylor <simon@unisolve.com.au>
To: advocacy@perl.org


Thanks to those who provided feedback to Shlomi's announcement a few days

I've summarized the various criticisms that people made, along with our

Randal L. Schwartz
Unless it's hidden, I'm not finding any obvious link there to the
defacto standard location for Perl beginners, <http://learn.perl.org>.
I think this represents broken integrity on your part, since you
appear to be trying to replace learn.perl.org, not supplement it, so
you're attempting to fracture the community, not enhance it.

If you add a prominent link to learn.perl.org, I will withdraw my
We do reference Simon Cozens Beginning Perl book at learn.perl.org
but you're correct that the learn.perl.org site is not made prominent
on perlmeme.org. We can certainly do this.

Gavin Henry
I think their intentions are great, but what's wrong with:

* http://learn.perl.org
* http://faq.perl.org
* Tutorials

They talk about their motivations, but it seems like a big duplicate
of effort? I think they need to have a links page mentioning things like
We link to some good perldoc pages at:
and I think that this is probably the place for us to link to the
learn.perl.org urls.

And its not very well done CGI wise (IE super hackable...
didn't you check and untaint the input?)


Thats pretty limmited in scope but not a good idea for a site that is
supposed to be giving out good ideas :)
Well, you win.

In http://perlmeme.org/start_here/our_motivations.html there's a lot of
talk about dealing with "anti-Perl memes" and, essentially, how to
market Perl. Given that, I can only wonder why the site creators
didn't bother to contact The Perl Foundation
(http://www.perlfoundation.org/) as the latter is always interested in
new volunteers with energy and creative ability who are willing to help
out on that very topic.
I've had pleasant dealings with The Perl Foundation at the Open
Source Developers' Conference, but be honest, it never occured to me to
talk to them about perlmeme.org
And is there any mention of the Perl community? I can't see it there.
The site purports to be a resource for "selling" Perl and overcoming
the negative reaction many folks have to the language, but the site is
little more than a cookbook. How can one market Perl and leave out one
of its strongest selling points?
We'd love to sell the Perl community. If anyone here wants to send me some
text highlighting the resources that people who are new to Perl should
know about, we'll ensure it's featured prominently.
Oh, and this is bad, just bad:

And can you find the runtime errors on this page's code?

And plenty of little bugs and typos here:

There's more and nitpicking seems petty but for a site which has the
stated goal of addressing the "many irrational anti-Perl memes", it
really needs to get things right.
Ouch. You've highlighted some poor quality control there. We've now
rectified these pages. Thanks for pointing this out.

Henning Møller-Nielsen
I for one would like any example showing beginners to use
'require FUNCTIONLIB' instead of 'use MODULE' to be
removed or edited to be in a style appropriate
for Perl 5.
Appreciate your point. The single 'require' example that we have on the site
is fine as it stands, but it does beg the question of why we didn't mention
"use" in the same place and the important ways it differs... We'll address


Simon Taylor
Unisolve Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia
+61 3 9568 2005



Shlomi Fish shlomif@iglu.org.il
Homepage: http://www.shlomifish.org/

95% of the programmers consider 95% of the code they did not write, in the
bottom 5%.

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postedOct 4, '05 at 1:38p
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