On Oct 9, 2012, at 1:07 PM, Adam Peller wrote:


Alex, I had followed-up off-thread, but I should have done so on the
list for the record (since others seem to be commenting freely on the
vote thread). Sorry if my 0 vote was misunderstood. I wasn't
requesting DTK integration. Far from it. I was wishing for more
information in the proposal: for a comparison with what's available
and for some sort of strategy, whether it be integration,
co-existence, replacement, etc. The proposal did not even mention the
existence of dojo i18n tools, and for all I know, the author was
unaware of them.

That's entirely fair.

I think a proposal ought to be more complete than
that, and I was disappointed at the lack of due diligence. I don't
want to go to the extremes of Apache, but I think we've been far too
loose with these proposals. Besides 100% open source and ops concerns,
do we have any requirements for a proposal to get in the foundation
anymore? Doesn't seem like it.

What do you propose? ISTM that the Foundation's role is to provide lightweight legal umbrellas to deserving efforts. Trying to figure out what software will "win" feels like a job for the market of developers/users to figure out. We'd *like* to provide a home for the "winners" (particularly since they're the ones who need the umbrella most), but it's really hard to know how things will play out when code is early and ideas are flowing. Goodness knows we've all made our errors of omission, and I hope the foundation can be place where those are resolved in an adult way -- but if we want to get projects in while they're young and we still stand a chance of helping them build credibility around licensing, my view is that you have to accept the *people*, not so much the current form of the code and ideas.

Ideally, I think the new package would replace dojo.i18n, leverage ES5
i18n shims, try to solve the AMD i18n plugin problem in a
loader-neutral way, if that's possible, make use of a JS transcription
of the CLDR to replace what we had to do for Dojo.

Yeah! I was thinking that having polyfills for the ES6 i18n API support might be a great way to go. Use this new thing + CLDR transcription as a bridge strategy to get there seems ideal. Sorry I wasn't clearer.

-Adam

On Oct 9, 2012, at 11:03 AM, Dylan Schiemann wrote:

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fwiw, regarding governance model and IP, I don't send proposals out for
a vote that are not governed following the 100 point model with 100%
clean IP. I apply that filter before we send things out for vote. In
some cases a project will change their approach (for example, with this
project, I asked for clarification on their licensing, and they switched
from a public domain style license to BSD/MIT dual-license to match
requirejs).

Regards,
- -Dylan

on 10/9/12 2:57 AM (GMT-07:00) Alex Russell said the following:
+1. What Kitson said.

On Sep 30, 2012, at 7:07 AM, Kitson Kelly <me@kitsonkelly.com>
wrote:
+1

Not all Dojo Foundation projects have to immediately fit the Dojo
Toolkit in my opinion. At the very least it does then make it
easier if we wanted or needed to move i18n forward with DTK to
potentially use an alternative approach.

While it won't change my vote, the only thing that would have been
an addition to the proposal would have been more clarity about what
the governance model for the project will look like and the current
state of the IP. Because correct me if I am wrong, but those are a
requirement of a Dojo Foundation project. I am sure Alex will have
a governance model, but making it clear that it would give it 100
points on the Almaer's scale and that it's IP up to this point is
100% clean are both important issues to address.
-- Alex Russell slightlyoff at google.com slightlyoff at chromium.org
alex at dojotoolkit.org BE03 E88D EABB 2116 CC49 8259 CF78 E242 59C3
9723

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slightlyoff at google.com
slightlyoff at chromium.org
alex at dojotoolkit.org BE03 E88D EABB 2116 CC49 8259 CF78 E242 59C3 9723

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