Grokbase Groups Cayenne dev May 2015
I doubt rewriting the entire modeler is in scope for this project.

Since Swing is not ever going to change there's not much danger in using a
third party library as long it works correctly. So I would go ahead and
use it.
On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 7:31 AM Michael Gentry wrote:

Hi Ari and others. I've been meaning to reply to this for a while, but was
busy vacationing and vegetating...

I briefly played with JavaFX and Scene Builder a couple years ago and it
seemed "neat" at the time, but looking at Oracle's web site makes me wonder
how much support it'll continue to have in the future if you have to
download and build the tools yourself:

And yes, I'd suggest using Scene Builder (if using JavaFX) so you have a UI
building tool (kind of like Interface Builder for any of the
NeXTstep/OpenStep/OS X/iOS types). Writing UI in unnecessary code is very

Another option I thought about for a Cayenne Modeler replacement was to
make it a web application. You can have an embedded Jetty server which is
started up by the web application and launches the browser for you to the
proper URL (the H2 Database Console takes this approach -- just java -jar
your-h2-jar-file in your ~/.m2 to see this concept in action). This would
solve some current limitations: could use multiple tabs/windows to have
multiple models open and allow multi-user editing (although you'd have to
bake some security measures in). Perhaps even a few more, and I don't
think browser technology is going away anytime soon. The big decision
there would be which web framework to use (I've been a fan of Tapestry 5
for a while now, so that's my current bias, but there are others).


On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 8:17 PM, Aristedes Maniatis wrote:

Hi Helena

At work I have a commercial Swing project which is now about 9 years old.
Although we evaluated very many third party UI libraries from SwingX to
commercial offerings, we ended up rejecting them all and just building our
own components. The way I see it:

* ALL swing libraries are doomed. That is, no-one is starting new projects
in Swing and so there is diminishing support for whatever libraries exist
today. If they have support at the moment, they will probably not have
support next year.

* So, use a library if we are prepared to understand and support ourselves
(or extract the relevant parts).

* Or, recognise that somewhere in the not distant future of every Swing
project is probably a complete rewrite into JavaFX. Coincidentally my work
project just this week is building some test UI in JavaFX to see what the
migration will be like. Hopefully I'll understand more soon.

Also, remember that:

* We can write bits of UI in JavaFX and other bits we keep in Swing until
we are ready. I'm still exploring that myself, so I'm not sure of the
limitations of this approach.

* Cayenne Modeler could probably be advanced to Java 8 (where the most
recent UI improvements are) even if the Cayenne library is held back to
older Java versions.


On 26/05/2015 7:16am, Helena Borak wrote:
I'm working on issue CAY-895.
It was suggested to use l2fprod library, which turned out to be
unsupported, so I'd like to ask you what I'm supposed to do now.
Shall I make necessary class by myself (what shouldn't be a problem) or do
you suggest any other library ?

Helena Borak
Aristedes Maniatis
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