FAQ
Hello OSUNIX list,

I've been very dissatisfied what is happening at ILLUMOS and I found
many many others which are suffering from Garrett D'Amore/NEXENTA and
their narrow-minded, ZFS centric dictatorship and cathedral
development model.
We are going to fork ILLUMOS and make it the place we think will be
the real successor to OPENSOLARIS with a different development model
where multiple equals, each owning a functionality, work together in a
bazaar of ideas and dreams.
Would OSUNIX be willing to become an ILLUMOS replacement and host us?

Stamos

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  • Damian Wojsław at Apr 11, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    Quoting Stamos Tolias <stamtolias@gmail.com>:

    Hello OSUNIX list,

    I've been very dissatisfied what is happening at ILLUMOS and I found
    many many others which are suffering from Garrett D'Amore/NEXENTA and
    their narrow-minded, ZFS centric dictatorship and cathedral
    development model.
    We are going to fork ILLUMOS and make it the place we think will be
    the real successor to OPENSOLARIS with a different development model
    where multiple equals, each owning a functionality, work together in a
    bazaar of ideas and dreams.
    Would OSUNIX be willing to become an ILLUMOS replacement and host us?

    Stamos
    Would you please state and give examples?

    Thanx

    Damian



    --
    Damian Wojs?aw


    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
  • C. Bergström at Apr 11, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    Damian Wojs?aw wrote:
    Quoting Stamos Tolias <stamtolias@gmail.com>:
    Hello OSUNIX list,

    I've been very dissatisfied what is happening at ILLUMOS and I found
    many many others which are suffering from Garrett D'Amore/NEXENTA and
    their narrow-minded, ZFS centric dictatorship and cathedral
    development model.
    We are going to fork ILLUMOS and make it the place we think will be
    the real successor to OPENSOLARIS with a different development model
    where multiple equals, each owning a functionality, work together in a
    bazaar of ideas and dreams.
    Would OSUNIX be willing to become an ILLUMOS replacement and host us?

    Stamos
    Would you please state and give examples?
    Anyone who knows me could guess my opinion easily, but logistically I
    can get or setup pretty much any of the following..

    1) Jira for issue tracking
    2) Github (or bitbucket) for source control
    3) Forums/mailing list.. etc (It's all in place)

    So just consider me at anyone's disposal if I can help out.
    (OSUNIX/Illumos/Oracle/OpenIndiana.. etc)

    ./C
    -------------------------------

    ps. I still live in the land of compilers/toolchain/GPGPU and apologize
    for not having more time to beat OSUNIX into shape.
  • Stamos Tolias at Apr 15, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    2011/4/11 Damian Wojs?aw <damian@wojslaw.pl>:
    Quoting Stamos Tolias <stamtolias@gmail.com>:
    Hello OSUNIX list,

    I've been very dissatisfied what is happening at ILLUMOS and I found
    many many others which are suffering from Garrett D'Amore/NEXENTA and
    their narrow-minded, ZFS centric dictatorship and cathedral
    development model.
    We are going to fork ILLUMOS and make it the place we think will be
    the real successor to OPENSOLARIS with a different development model
    where multiple equals, each owning a functionality, work together in a
    bazaar of ideas and dreams.
    Would OSUNIX be willing to become an ILLUMOS replacement and host us?

    Stamos
    Would you please state and give examples?
    I'm not free to give much examples because many of them have only be
    provided under NDA from the companies involved willing to sponsor a
    fork of Illumos. But I can say this:
    Garrett has driven everyone who is not of value for Nexenta off the project.
    He's saying he'll welcome every project and contribution but when it
    comes to the guts he and Nexenta are not willing to share control.
    With him as leader and Nexenta as almighty power there won't be a port
    to MIPS or other architectures.

    With him as leader there won't be a participation of other major
    companies like Nvidia or AMD. Both already said that they will not
    invest or support Illumos as long as Garrett leads the project as
    benevolent dictator who can block contributions. Both companies are
    not interested in sponsoring Illumos to save Nexenta the licensing
    costs if Garret does not cease his omnipotent control.

    With him as leader there won't be participation of companies which may
    compete with Nexenta in the same market. You may not have noticed by
    Nexenta controls and employs all of the advocates who can block
    contributions.

    Garrett ruined many opportunities to grow Illumos by driving value
    people and companies away or force them into submission. The only way
    to move forward is to fork out of this situation, make a clean start
    and get sponsored by the companies Garrett has driven away.
    Fortunately Garrett has created such as mess that we have ample
    funding to run the fork :-)

    Stamos
  • Damian Wojsław at Apr 15, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    Quoting Stamos Tolias <stamtolias@gmail.com>:

    2011/4/11 Damian Wojs?aw <damian@wojslaw.pl>:
    Quoting Stamos Tolias <stamtolias@gmail.com>:
    Hello OSUNIX list,


    [cut]
    Garrett ruined many opportunities to grow Illumos by driving value
    people and companies away or force them into submission. The only way
    to move forward is to fork out of this situation, make a clean start
    and get sponsored by the companies Garrett has driven away.
    Fortunately Garrett has created such as mess that we have ample
    funding to run the fork :-)

    Stamos
    Are you free to present sponsoring companies, then?

    Regards

    --
    Damian Wojs?aw


    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
  • Stamos Tolias at Apr 19, 2011 at 2:22 pm

    2011/4/15 Damian Wojs?aw <damian@wojslaw.pl>:
    Quoting Stamos Tolias <stamtolias@gmail.com>:
    2011/4/11 Damian Wojs?aw <damian@wojslaw.pl>:
    Quoting Stamos Tolias <stamtolias@gmail.com>:
    Hello OSUNIX list,


    [cut]
    Garrett ruined many opportunities to grow Illumos by driving value
    people and companies away or force them into submission. The only way
    to move forward is to fork out of this situation, make a clean start
    and get sponsored by the companies Garrett has driven away.
    Fortunately Garrett has created such as mess that we have ample
    funding to run the fork :-)

    Stamos
    Are you free to present sponsoring companies, then?
    I am free to announce the full list of commercial launch partners when
    we go public on Nov 1st 2011.
    Lead is going to be shared between the University of Athens, with help
    from a EU research fund, and EADS as commercial partner.

    We are now also considering if we should ask Illumos to join.

    Stamos
  • Tony Cook at Apr 19, 2011 at 3:45 pm

    2011/4/19 Stamos Tolias <stamtolias@gmail.com>:
    2011/4/15 Damian Wojs?aw <damian@wojslaw.pl>:
    Quoting Stamos Tolias <stamtolias@gmail.com>:
    [cut]
    We are now also considering if we should ask Illumos to join.
    What are you trying to archive with that? Both AMD and Nvidia were
    adamant not having Garrett/NEXENTA in the project. There won't be any
    firmware or microcode updates for Illumos, and if we cooperate with
    Illumos we only risk their wrath, too. It doesn't matter if
    Illumos/NEXENTA are cutoff from two of the major X86 CPU and GPU
    vendors but it will matter to us and those who pay the bills.

    I also don't think Garrett is interested. He said on IRC that he is
    not interested what is happening here. I am happy with that. Garrett
    might be a good engineer but he is failing as community lead, not
    willing to give others enough freedom and instead suffocate innovation
    with his conservative modus operandi instead of widening his gaze to
    new ideas. His Illumos advocates are from the same breed of mind, too.
    IMO Garrett has no place in the world of innovators, and we need
    innovations to be competitive.

    Tony Cook
  • C. Bergström at Apr 19, 2011 at 3:48 pm
    I can't stand Garrett, but can we try to put our personal feelings aside
    and just focus on getting work done, please? Lets make a strategy for
    what infrastructure is needed and just do it. Those who want to
    contribute code will and everything else doesn't matter.

    I have control of osunix.org/.com so just let me know if anyone needs
    DNS messed with.

    Thanks!
  • Giovanni Tirloni at Apr 15, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    2011/4/15 Stamos Tolias <stamtolias@gmail.com>:
    2011/4/11 Damian Wojs?aw <damian@wojslaw.pl>:
    Quoting Stamos Tolias <stamtolias@gmail.com>:
    Hello OSUNIX list,

    I've been very dissatisfied what is happening at ILLUMOS and I found
    many many others which are suffering from Garrett D'Amore/NEXENTA and
    their narrow-minded, ZFS centric dictatorship and cathedral
    development model.
    We are going to fork ILLUMOS and make it the place we think will be
    the real successor to OPENSOLARIS with a different development model
    where multiple equals, each owning a functionality, work together in a
    bazaar of ideas and dreams.
    Would OSUNIX be willing to become an ILLUMOS replacement and host us?

    Stamos
    Would you please state and give examples?
    I'm not free to give much examples because many of them have only be
    provided under NDA from the companies involved willing to sponsor a
    fork of Illumos. But I can say this:
    Garrett has driven everyone who is not of value for Nexenta off the project.
    He's saying he'll welcome every project and contribution but when it
    comes to the guts he and Nexenta are not willing to share control.
    With him as leader and Nexenta as almighty power there won't be a port
    to MIPS or other architectures.

    With him as leader there won't be a participation of other major
    companies like Nvidia or AMD. Both already said that they will not
    invest or support Illumos as long as Garrett leads the project as
    benevolent dictator who can block contributions. Both companies are
    not interested in sponsoring Illumos to save Nexenta the licensing
    costs if Garret does not cease his omnipotent control.

    With him as leader there won't be participation of companies which may
    compete with Nexenta in the same market. You may not have noticed by
    Nexenta controls and employs all of the advocates who can block
    contributions.

    Garrett ruined many opportunities to grow Illumos by driving value
    people and companies away or force them into submission. The only way
    to move forward is to fork out of this situation, make a clean start
    and get sponsored by the companies Garrett has driven away.
    Fortunately Garrett has created such as mess that we have ample
    funding to run the fork :-)
    If this is happening, I think a reasonable approach is for these
    companies to take the risk and deliver code anyway. If the
    OpenSolaris/Illumos codebase is so valuable to them, I don't think
    they should be held back by either Illumos leadership or any other
    problem. Companies use *BSD all the time and contribute what they can
    back.. if it's not accepted, too bad, they're still reaping the
    benefits internally. If the contribution was reject and it was so
    great, other individuals will point it out to the key holders. Public
    scrutiny works great.

    The problem with OpenSolaris and, from what you say, Illumos, seems to
    be basically the attempt to create collaboration artificially and
    hidden agendas. The best open source projects that I know start with
    individuals (either employed, as hobby, etc) contributing code. It'll
    take a while and that's fine.

    --
    Giovanni Tirloni

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postedApr 11, '11 at 1:11p
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