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Re: [pgsql-advocacy] Change the name

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Peter Eisentraut Re: [pgsql-advocacy] Change the name
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Am Dienstag, 4. September 2007 18:16 schrieb Josh Berkus:
> From my perspective, this whole discussion ... and the EDB survey, and the
> headcount on this thread, etc., is pretty much entirely moot. 40+ people
> are arguing about what color to paint the bike shed, and not one person has
> picked up a brush.

Why would anyone pick up a brush if the color isn't decided yet?  I think it's 
reasonable to assume that once the color is decided, brushes can be located
quickly.

--
Peter Eisentraut
http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/

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Thread : Re: Change the name
1)
Chris Browne There's the part that *isn't* insane. I believe CMD already has a Subversion repository tracking...
2)
Josh Berkus All, headcount on this thread, etc., is pretty much entirely moot. 40+ people are arguing about...
3)
Gavin M. Roy In the various threads I've seen several people who have said they will step up and do parts of the...
4)
Peter Eisentraut The core team appears to be about as much divided on this issue as those who have spoken out on...
5)
Robert Bernier forward Which is why I suggested at the begining of this thread (which seems such as long time ago)...
6)
Peter Eisentraut Why would anyone pick up a brush if the color isn't decided yet? I think it's reasonable to assume...
7)
Andy Astor Well put, Peter. Josh, we simply need to decide if we want to do it or not. Lots of people have...
8)
Josh Berkus Andy, Ron, Peter, etc.: Ok, that didn't come out right. To restate: The next step of this process...
9)
Greg Sabino Mullane Excellent point, Josh, I think we've outgrown a mailing list. I made a quick wiki page. Pleae let...
10)
Chris Browne I added a section to it documenting "Tasks in the Upgrading The Name Project." It may make sense to...
11)
Ron Mayer I'm happy to add them myself if you wanted to add naming privs; or I can just email them here if...
12)
Christian Voelker Hello, new to this list but long term postgres user. David Fetter mentioned the discussion in his...
13)
Josh Berkus All, I've updated the wiki with my task list and the suggestions/comments from others on this...
14)
Ron Mayer It seems most of those tasks are just as required with the current state of PostgreSQL as official...
15)
The Hermit Hacker - --On Wednesday, September 05, 2007 11:05:07 -0700 Ron Mayer Nope, pgsql is, and always has been,...
16)
Ron Mayer Indeed - but "ps" seems like the most logical short form of PostgreSQL. Or when pronounced out loud...
17)
Jonah H. Harris Actually, libpq is a throwback to Ingres. Ingres has libq (otherwise known as the EQUEL runtime...
18)
Jan Wieck Close. Postgres' original query language was PostQUEL, an extended version of University Ingres'...
19)
Jan Wieck While I 100% agree that further discussion or polls or votes or anything are pointless until we...
20)
Bruce Momjian OK, looks like we now have a list of items to address _if_ we change the name:...
21)
Robert Treat I'd say no. Someone should talk to the packagers to asses viability, and someone should review...
22)
Bruce Momjian Are you saying we should ask the packagers email list? I don't see any other way to ask them. I...
23)
Josh Berkus Bruce, Wrong. Competely and totally wrong. Look at the amount of stuff on that page which is listed...
24)
Bruce Momjian Are you trying to throw up roadblocks? That is my analysis. I was just suggesting we ask the...
25)
Joshua D. Drake Now he is trying to make you realize what level of job this really is. A great many people on this...
26)
Bruce Momjian I think we have to decide if we really want to do this, and I don't see how we can do that without...
27)
Joshua D. Drake 5000 bucks and a case of whatever you drink says, that if we drop this topic, PostgreSQL won't stop...
28)
Bruce Momjian True, but will a name change increase growth? The bottom line is I am fine with accepting whatever...
29)
Joshua D. Drake Probably not. Consider the number of projects out there with odd names that are doing just fine. -...
30)
Chris Travers I suppose I should weight in on this. I think the first question is: Is this the best way to go,...
 paperclip
31)
Josh Berkus Bruce, What are you planning to ask -general, exactly? Unless it's a call for volunteers, anything...
32)
Chris Travers I think we should ask -general: Do you think this is a good idea? What sort of concerns do you...
33)
Bruce Momjian There seems to be a lot of valid concern about having manpower for this. I am willing to take the...
34)
Joshua D. Drake What the heck Bruce, post to -general but make sure you post to the following as well:...
35)
Greg Sabino Mullane I see -general as our user base, not as a bunch of uninformed 'folks' who wouldn't know advocacy...
36)
Josh Berkus Greg, Sure. But that's still not taking a "vote", which is what I want to make clear, and doesn't...
37)
Ron Peterson 2007-09-14_14:06:22-0400 Greg Sabino Mullane <greg@turnstep.com>: XFCE...
38)
Gregory Stark Have you ever tried telling your boss that you're going to use "The Gimp" to design the new...
39)
Christian Voelker Great examples, but wrong conclusion I believe. Gimp is a perfect example of a Project where the...
40)
Gregory Stark What problem?
41)
Christian Voelker Hello, I fear, it is getting off topic. But to answer your question: My impression is that Gimp...
42)
Adrian Klaver In the US gimp is a derogatory name for a person with a handicap.
43)
Chris Travers Suppose as an alternative to "changing" the name, we just start promoting "Postgres" as an...
44)
Joshua D. Drake Add to FAQ: Q. What is the official name of the project? A. PostgreSQL, but we accept Postgres as a...
45)
Jim Nasby Simply changing a FAQ isn't exactly "promoting it to equal footing with PostgreSQL"... though at...
46)
Bruce Momjian Yea, that is another approach, making "Postgres" as a nickname more visible. Can anyone see a good...
47)
Joshua D. Drake Amend FAQ... that's all. Most people use it anyway ;) Joshua D. Drake === The PostgreSQL Company:...
48)
Bruce Momjian Is this something we can do now, no matter the outcome of the discussion?
49)
Joshua D. Drake Why not? I have zero problem with the FAQ amendment I suggested. Q. What is the official name of...
50)
Jonah H. Harris Agreed, I don't think anyone has contested the FAQ change.
51)
Bruce Momjian OK, FAQ wording updated from: ! <P>PostgreSQL is pronounced <I>Post-Gres-Q-L</I>, and is also...
52)
Joshua D. Drake Cool, now let's move forward :) Joshua D. Drake === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc....
53)
Bruce Momjian I trimmed down the paragraph a little: <P>PostgreSQL is pronounced <I>Post-Gres-Q-L</I>, but can...
54)
Josh Berkus Bruce, Looks good to me....
55)
Joshua D. Drake Looks great to me. Joshua D. Drake === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===...
56)
Steve Atkins It seems like a good FAQ addition. The only downside I can see to adopting the two names as equally...
57)
Joshua D. Drake I humbly submit that those who would actually ask that, just be kindly asked to move on to MySQL...
58)
Jonah H. Harris
59)
The Hermit Hacker - --On Friday, September 14, 2007 11:37:22 -0700 "Joshua D. Drake" Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org...
60)
Robert Treat Unfortunatly I took a fair amount of sales and marketing classes in college, so I guess I have to...
61)
Markus Schiltknecht Hi, Why should that be unfortunate? :-) Anyway... We *still* suffer from this, despite having...
62)
Ron Peterson 2007-09-15_04:21:01-0400 Markus Schiltknecht <markus@bluegap.ch>: That already happened. There has...
63)
Markus Schiltknecht Hi, Huh? That seems obvious: switching to the easier name means adopting what people generally seem...
64)
Ron Peterson 2007-09-15_07:44:38-0400 Markus Schiltknecht <markus@bluegap.ch>: That's based on the assumption...
65)
Markus Schiltknecht Hi, Yes, to me this is true. Because lots of people abbreviate 'PostgreSQL' with 'Postgres' mostly...
66)
Bruce Momjian The fact is that I use "Postgres" in all my speaches and press interviews and no one has said they...
67)
Ron Peterson 2007-09-14_23:36:37-0400 Robert Treat <xzilla@users.sourceforge.net>: I think you hit the nail on...
68)
Gregory Stark That is indeed unfortunate, my condolences.
69)
Chris Travers The only major problem I see with this argument is that the RDBMS is called any of: PostgreSQL,...
 paperclip
70)
Robert Treat If postgres is a stronger brand (tradmarks are a legal term, and none of these words qualify) than...
71)
Joshua D. Drake Right. Joshua D. Drake === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. === Sales/Support:...
72)
Gregory Stark Wait, what problem? That's just a truism, do we care about being consistent though? Better how?...
73)
The Hermit Hacker - --On Friday, September 14, 2007 23:36:37 -0400 Robert Treat Actually, having "two names" is a...
74)
Jim Nasby But that's not what we're talking about. I don't think anyone really cares if we go from "The...
75)
Chris Travers First of all, this project has 3 names which are used in marketing: PostgreSQL Postgres Pg It isnt...
 paperclip
76)
Robert Treat That would be one way that would give apretty good sampling. Hmm, I'm not so sure, I believe a...
77)
Robert Bernier Please reread the posts. I did volunteer. ---------------------------(end of...
78)
Ron Mayer My concrete proposal. I want one simple statement from the project that it's OK for people to say...
79)
Alvaro Herrera You gotta be kidding. I would reword this as What is Postgres? How is it pronounced? Postgres is...
80)
Greg Sabino Mullane <p>PostgreSQL is pronounced <i>Post-Gres-Q-L</i>, and is also sometimes ! referred to as just...
81)
Ron Mayer The total amount of _OPTIONAL_ and downright unnecessary work is immense: world "having" to update...
82)
Josh Berkus Ron, <snip> This puts us in the worst of all possible worlds: one in which some things are labelled...
83)
Robert Treat I think you're inflating this a bit. path names are the purview of the packagers. We don't have a...
84)
Jussi Mikkola Hi Josh, I think you are absolutely right. If there would be a name change, then there would first...
85)
Ron Peterson 2007-09-04_12:16:42-0400 Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>: Umm, you've got me on the wrong side of...
86)
Andy Astor this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3272685629_12847469 Content-type:...
87)
Josh Berkus Andy, No, it was Drake, not me. JD was pointing out that someone (I don't remember who) had spoken...
88)
Andy Astor Apologies for the confusion, Josh and JD. I now understand the context for JD's statement. I was...
89)
Tatsuo Ishii Just for a fun, I played with some market size estimation. It is said that in Japan on Linux...
90)
Jim Nasby To further clarify, IIRC the complaint was based on the expense of reworking all their swag....
91)
The Hermit Hacker - --On Monday, September 17, 2007 22:26:28 -0500 Decibel! <decibel@decibel.org> Y"IIRC" it wrong...
92)
Tatsuo Ishii Exactly. It took for 10 years in Japan to make "PostgreSQL" as the most famous OSS DB brand. Please...
93)
The Hermit Hacker - --On Sunday, September 16, 2007 22:16:35 -0700 Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> Tatsu Ishii .....
94)
Tatsuo Ishii If someone were me, I would like to point out that I'm not in the position of speaking for JPUG...
95)
Tatsuo Ishii I asked the JPUG borard and they decided not to express yes or no opinion for name changing. Here...
96)
Christian Voelker Hello, I strongly believe that is wrong to ask somebody whether the name should be changed. The...
97)
Tatsuo Ishii Feel free to send email to them to know what they think.
98)
Satoshi Nagayasu Hi all, I apologize that I don't read all messages in this thread, but I can give some comments...
99)
John One of the proposals is to have 'Post-gre' become an accepted name along with PostgreSQL and...
100)
Shashank Tripathi I am not sure on what this observation is based? Japan as a market would be very pleased if the...
101)
Alvaro Herrera Shashank Tripathi escribió: Just to confirm: in spanish, people use "Postgre" only because it's...
102)
Tatsuo Ishii Nobody says like that in Japan, as far as I know.
103)
Satoshi Nagayasu Yes. As I wrote, the pronunciation is not a problem in Japan, so we can't find any (strong) reason...
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