Grokbase Groups Turbine dev June 2003
FAQ

[Turbine-dev] RE: Decimal Number support

Colin Chalmers
Jun 19, 2003 at 1:28 pm
"We are the only three active developers on the project."

Hhmm, that's not much. If my patches were to get checked in I could probably
work on a few other bits & pieces. I have a lull between projects at the
moment.

Colin

-----Original Message-----
From: Henning Schmiedehausen
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 3:13 PM
To: Bill
Cc: Quinton McCombs; Eric Pugh; Turbine Developers List
Subject: RE: Decimal Number support


I hope that noone will ever regret to get involved with turbine
development. :-)

How can you help? Well, easiest thing would be to ask yourself "which
part of Turbine hurts me most". I'm sure that every turbine developer
would come up with a different part. :-)

If you're somehow seasoned with the maven development tool, one of the
things that we really could need for the 2.3 release would be a simple,
skeletal build environment with some preset configuration files for
turbine, log4j and torque, and a simple way to generate a project.xml
file for "your new turbine project". The current tdk is simply to
cumbersome and aged to really work well. I admire the work that Martin
did to get a 2.2 TDK out but with maven around we might get a simpler,
better working and easier to understand development environment from
maven and a few tools.

So this would be a really cool place to work on. I can send you some
demo apps that I threw together for demonstrating various aspects of
Turbine (you'll find links in the -dev archive, else I can send them to
you) and you would have to put together some build scripts.

What platform do you normally work on? Windows or Unix/Linux? As far as
I can see, we could really need some more people testing the HEAD on
Windows.

Regards
Henning

On Wed, 2003-06-18 at 22:19, Bill wrote:
Ok, I'm gonna regret this...but how can I help at this point? :)

I dont have a ton of time, but what time I do have, I'd be more than
willing to give.

I'm probably not nearly as savvy a java coder as the three of you, but
consider me at your service if I can speed things along.

-b
On Wed, 2003-06-18 at 15:05, Quinton McCombs wrote:
I don't recall that discussion although I have only been active on the
lists for about 8 - 9 months. I do know that the development of Turbine
is not only for support releases. Turbine 2.3 has been the continuation
of clean up and bug fixes. There have been very few new features added.

Turbine 2.4 should should add Avalonization and a backport pipeline
functionality from Turbine 3. Both of these changes are geared to give
the user much greater flexibility in extending the product while at the
same time reducing the interdependencies between the various services.

With the release of 2.4, I think that you will see that it is much
easier to change views and persistence layers. You will also be able to
use components from other projects in Turbine. For example, if you want
to use the quartz scheduler, Hibernate, or a few components from the
Plexus/Summit project, they should work without a problem.

Turbine is not dead. It is moving rather slowly though. Henning has
been committing 90% of all of the changes lately. I have been unable to
work on the project for a little over a month now. Eric mainly focuses
of his new configuration stuff and unit testing. We are the only three
active developers on the project.


--------------------------------------------
Quinton McCombs
NequalsOne - HealthCare marketing tools
mailto:qmccombs@NequalsOne.com
http://www.NequalsOne.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 1:52 PM
To: Quinton McCombs
Subject: RE: Decimal Number support


I'm curious...I made that exact point when the original
announcement was made. The response from the list was no one
is using or interested in using FM, and that all future
releases were merely support releases. If Turbine
development is only support releases at this point and we're
moving toward Avalon, it doesnt make sense to add features in my mind.

However, I have been stuck with a lot of work on the Business
side of things in my company and have not been as attentive
to the list as in the past. Did I miss a change, is this
project now 'alive' again?

-b
On Wed, 2003-06-18 at 14:31, Quinton McCombs wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:15 AM
To: Henning P. Schmiedehausen
Cc: turbine-user
Subject: Re: Decimal Number support


Henning

I think working on Freemarker support would be a waste of the
developers valuable time.
It would not be a waste of time is people are interested in
using it.
However, divorcing Turbine from
Velocity to allow more flexibility not only seems like a good
idea, it seems absolutely necessary if the I understand the
path to Avalonization.
I agree with you that the flexibility would be a very good thing.

Our view architecture is really not very plugable. The problem is
that once you start writing your actions and screen classes which
accept RunData and Context as parameters, you are become
tied to the
view implementation. This was very much a shortcoming of the core
design of Turbine.

Hennings idea to create a proxy class to represent the context type
object of the underlying view is indeed a good way to solve this
problem. It would require deprecating the methods that everyone
normally overrides in the screen and action classes. The
replacement
would be virtually the same interface replacing Context
with the new
class.

Even if we do not decide to support FreeMarker, I think
that it would
be in our best interests to implement the proxy class for
the context.
Right now, if your view is JSP and you want to switch to
Velocity or
visa-versa, you must modify all of your action and screen classes.
Not fun.
-b


On Wed, 2003-06-18 at 06:41, Henning P. Schmiedehausen wrote:
Jonathan Revusky <jon@revusky.com> writes:
Henning P. Schmiedehausen wrote:
Hi,

is anyone of you needing or missing FreeMarker Support
in Turbine
2.2?
I believe the question should maybe be rephrased:
Is any one of you needing or missing decimal number support in
Velocity?
Ok,

Folks, is anyone of you missing <insert your feature
here that FM
supports and Velocity does not> from the View portion
of Turbine?
You will find a feature complete list on
http://www.freemarker.org for
FreeMarker and on http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity
for Velocity.
If yes, would you consider a switch from Velocity to
FreeMarker as
View for Turbine or would you get a pull tool to support
this feature?
The reason for this (and Jonathans' response): On the
Velocity lists,
there has been some rumbling about the current
development state
of
Velocity and talking about alternatives to it. As we
(Turbine) did
remove the (quite aged and not actively maintained)
FreeMarker support
post Turbine-2.2, there have been some accusations of doing this
because of "political reasons". As I was not really
involved in the FM
stuff or its removal, I'm trying to collect opinions from
the Turbine
users about getting FM support back into Turbine. However, if
noone
wants to use it, it wouldn't make much sense and the change itself is
(IMHO) quite a major one to support FM really good.

Jonathan, some technical information (which you as a
non-Turbine guy
might not have seen yet): Unfortunately the
o.a.velocity.Context
is
buried pretty deep in the Turbine code (this is legacy of
the original
turbine developers). So we will have to replace this in every
place
with an Adapter class with plugs either onto the Velocity
Context or a
similar class in every other view solution (FreeMarker, WebMacro
etc.).

Doing so, it would be necessary for all of our users to
change the
imports in their self-written classes (Action, Screen),
because the
Context is part of the signature of the methods which are
overloaded
by user classes.

If we don't do this but just 'bolt FM support on' by using different
classes, there wouldn't be much won, because people would still
use
VelocityScreen, VelocityPage etc. just as in all the
example code
around and the FM code would start to rot (again). I don't
want this,
because it wouldn't buy much for the Turbine users. So we
would need
some major core changes to allow developers to simply
switch views
without having to rewrite all of their classes later.

If we want to have engine-independent view support which is equal for
all templating solutions (and not heavily Velocity based as the
current view is, which is one of the reasons why noone
really uses FM
and/or WebMacro with Turbine and the code started to
rot), we will
have to make this (major) change. This is something that
affects all
of our users and we will listen to them.
Is anybody missing any of those features?
Please send opinions to this list. Turbine 2.3 is pretty much in
feature-freeze state and I want to put out an RC until the
end of next
week (Colin, don't worry, your Intake changes will be in
:-) ) and I'm
already starting to collect ideas for 2.4-dev. However,
moving to the
pipeline and towards Avalon will (for me) stay top priority.

Regards
Henning
--
Bill <bhalpin@collaborativefusion.com>

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