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[Struts-dev] S2 as JSR for Action Framework

Frank W. Zammetti
Aug 25, 2008 at 4:36 am

Don Brown wrote:
This is a nice design, when you can do it. GWT is also a good way to
build these types of apps. Unfortunately, they can easily break much
of what makes the web what it is - the back button, unique,
addressable URI's, accessibility, search engine crawling, etc.
It's always interesting how often you hear the "this breaks the web"
sorts of statements. I'm not arguing the factuality of the statement, I
just find it interesting. It's also interesting the way you put it
here... you don't say anything like "this breaks the web", nor do you
make a value judgment on it (well, I suppose the word "unfortunately"
implies a value judgment, but it's not explicit).

I think we're at an interesting point in time right now... many people
are kind of mentally stuck in the sense that they see the ways in which
RIAs (can) break things like the back button and they think "well,
that's bad". But, maybe we shouldn't be asking if RIAs are the way to
go, but we should instead be asking different questions like "is the
back button as a navigational metaphor something we really want to be
perpetuating anyway"?

It's kind of like if someone came up with a hydrogen-based fuel system
for cars but for some reason (work with me here!) you could never use a
cell phone in the car or it'd explode... I don't think we shouldn't at
that point be asking if the fuel system is the right answer or not, we
should be asking whether the limitation it imposes is something that
should factor into the decision at all in the first place. Wouldn't we
be better off if you couldn't use cell phones in cars anyway?!?

Note that I'm not making a value judgment here either necessarily,
although I suspect my opinion is fairly obvious :) I do think we're in
the midst of a paradigm shift to a large extent, and I think there's
some fascinating consequences of that shift.

Frank

--
Frank W. Zammetti
Author of "Practical Dojo Projects"
abd "Practical DWR 2 Projects"
and "Practical JavaScript, DOM Scripting and Ajax Projects"
and "Practical Ajax Projects With Java Technology"
(For info: apress.com/book/search?searchterm=zammetti&act=search)
My "look ma, I have a blog too!" blog: zammetti.com/blog

Don

--
Martin Cooper


This idea of a JSR would be standardizing the third group, but I
wonder if maybe the better direction to go is not a new API, but build
extensions on JAX-RS [2]. To me, this group's niche is apps that need
lightweight presentation engines a layer above servlets, but still
very much "web-y". JSR 311 aims to make restful resources easy to
build, which isn't far from restful web applications. Especially as
more and more applications are starting to rely on client-side AJAX
interfaces, the need for a solid RESTful backend only gets stronger.
The storage of server-side state of the component frameworks becomes
less important, and if you don't want the bulk of Grails, this
approach may be attractive.

For my day job, we need to build REST interfaces to our web apps, so
we are looking to standardize on JAX-RS. Well, we also need a
lightweight web framework for our plugin system, and if we are already
using something like Jersey [3], it would be nice to be able to write
web apps using the same technology. This use case is obviously very
specific to our situation, but it is the direction I'll likely be
taking in the next few months.

Don

[1] http://www.source-code.biz/MiniTemplator/
[2] https://jsr311.dev.java.net/
[3] https://jersey.dev.java.net/
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 4:31 PM, Frans Thamura wrote:

hi all

is it possible that S2 become part of JCP?

java server action framework

right now only component framework there

any idea?



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Frans Thamura
Meruvian Foundation

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